Good point. So, the TXT record could be moved to support this case, but I'm
not sure any of this is worth it. To recap, you have a few delegation
models:

1. HTTPS: Currently only by giving a cert to your provider and having them
use SNI; hypothetically possible by 302s.
2. TXT: Currently not possible; hypothetically possible by zone delegation.

On the other hand, I don't expect policies to change any more frequently
than MX records themselves, which is why it never seemed critical to me to
support delegation. Thoughts?

On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 3:21 PM, David Illsley <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Unfortunately, given the dispersed nature of where you have to put config,
> I’m not sure there’s an easy delegation model. Even if you go to the effort
> of adding a host with a redirect, you still need to update the policy id in
> DNS whenever the policy changes. Similarly, you can’t simply delegate the
> mta-sts zone as the policy indicator TXT record doesn’t sit in it.
>
> On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 at 20:47, Daniel Margolis <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> My point was that if you host on Microsoft, you could have
>>
>> https://policy.example.com <-- cert for example.com, 302s to
>> policy.microsoft.com
>> https://policy.microsoft.com <-- cert for microsoft.com
>>
>> This way you don't have to give Microsoft your cert and they don't have
>> to set up SNI--but conversely, you have to set up your own 302 redirector.
>> Some users may prefer this to SNI, but I don't know if it's worth the
>> complexity it introduces.
>>
>> I do agree this brings nice simplicity.
>>
>> *shrug*
>>
>> I'm open to feedback on this. I never felt strongly about either
>> direction.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 8:42 PM, Binu Ramakrishnan <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My understanding is the primary purpose of a 3xx redirect is policy
>>> delegation. For example my MX points to Microsoft, so use their policy.
>>> This is certainly useful, however in my opinion it is less compelling use
>>> case because of the following observation:
>>>
>>> In case of 3rd party provider model, the provider is required to host an
>>> HTTPS endpoint for every hosted domain, whether for doing a 3xx redirect or
>>> serving a policy. Since we need HTTPS endpoint for every domain, why not
>>> serve the policy itself? If the argument is to have one policy file shared
>>> by all domains, then as a provider, you may serve a shared file or reverse
>>> proxy the policy file from the right server.
>>>
>>> From a security angle, by not supporting 3xx redirect, I think we
>>> simplified the policy retrieval and have one less thing to worry about (in
>>> spec and implementation).
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> -binu
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Daniel Margolis <[email protected]>
>>> *To:* [email protected]; Binu Ramakrishnan <[email protected]>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, 20 August 2017 10:24 AM
>>> *Subject:* 302 redirects (was "MTA-STS and HTTP cache control")
>>>
>>> So, the *motivation* for this was simplification: if you allow 302s,
>>> you have to specify a bit more clearly what the behavior is for things like
>>> a 302 to a HTTP URI, max redirect depth, etc.
>>>
>>> In truth, though, I've never been super happy with the prohibition on
>>> 302s, since it seems to make policy delegation (i.e. "My MX points to
>>> Microsoft; use their policy as well") easier than having your mail provider
>>> also host a policy for you using SNI. I could personally be convinced that
>>> we *should* allow 302s. I seem to recall Binu felt more strongly in the
>>> converse, though, so I will let him chime in and maybe correct me. ;)
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 7:17 PM, Viktor Dukhovni <[email protected]
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Aug 20, 2017, at 1:08 PM, Daniel Margolis <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Policies fetched via HTTPS are only valid if the HTTP response code is
>>> 200 (OK).
>>> > HTTP 3xx redirects MUST NOT be followed, and HTTP caching (as
>>> specified in
>>> > RFC7234) MUST NOT be used.
>>>
>>> I forget, is non-support of redirects intended to simplify the policy
>>> retrieval
>>> code at the sending MTA , or is it a security concern?  I am all for
>>> making
>>> the service accessible to bare-bones HTTPS implementations, and so am
>>> not asking
>>> for redirect support, just wanted to check the motivation...  Perhaps
>>> the rationale
>>> should be stated in the draft?
>>>
>>> --
>>>         Viktor.
>>>
>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>> Uta mailing list
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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