Dear Edgar, The purpose of including Installer in the image in the first place was to balance the idea of removing packages with that of being able to put them back in. And I would point out this was your idea!
I.E. enable a minimal base image as a starting point yet provide a simple capability to build custom images back up from the removed parts. Universes does NOT provide this ability, it just loads packages, it doesnt have any features for building images for practical purposes. It is a subset of functionality that might be used in the image building process. IF AND ONLY IF you are lucky enough to have the universe perfectly configured for the image that you are wanting to build. In good faith, I spent 2 weeks attempting to get universes into a state so that I could use it to create the image that I wanted for my current WebStore project. This was 2 weeks of wasted time, which I could have better spent writing an Installer script to do the same thing. I.e. Installer uses Universes, not the other way around. Universes is just one piece in the building puzzle, it does not have the big picture. I think "The release team" needs to reconsider these decisions based upon the workflow model (USE CASES etc) for the usage of this release. Here is the workflow as I have always understood it, and have experienced on several projects. BASE IMAGE --in--> Image builder person --out--> Published Image --in--> Image User Person --out--> Working Image examples: 3.10base -> Damien (uses script) -> Squeak-dev/web -> Keith (scrpt+universes) -> Webstore developemnt image. 3.10base -> Edgar (script?) -> Tango-Squeak -> End User (universes) -> Working image 3.10base -> Keith (uses script) -> Webstore Deployment Image -> Users (script/universes) -> Upgraded in field image. 3.10base -> ReleaseTester (uses script) -> Test Report. Notice the word that keeps coming up... "script". All of the use cases begin with some form of building script. What is present in the image to facilitate this right from the command line? NOTHING at all. This is silly, since I wrote Installer/Launcher for this very purpose almost 18 months ago, and I wrote it with the express purpose of making future squeak releases easier to work with in practical situations. So if you take Installer out (i.e. you do not include the latest version), you loose a lot. If you take Universes out you loose NOTHING. Ok... i try to clarify this for you once more... Commercial project Gjallar using Squeak 3.8. First step in the "UNATTENDED" building process is. 1. Run a script which prepares the image to be in a known state ready for applying the "Gjallar.st" script. Commercial project WebStore usinge Squeak 3.19. First step in the building process is. 1. Run a script which prepares the image to be in a known state ready for applying the "Webstore.st" script. See what has changed? NOTHING, squeak is no more usable for preparing an image for aparticular purpose than before, adding Universes has done nothing to help. However if you add Installer to 3.10 you can build your images like so: squeak 3.10base.image Installer installFile=gjallar.st SmalltalkImage saveAs:gjallar.image +quit OK so it is too much to ask you to remove Universes, since it is redundant in a base image anyway. BUT please include Installer latest because it IS actually useful and it IS actually a PAIN not having it. Keith _______________________________________________ V3dot10 mailing list [email protected] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/v3dot10
