Hi, On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 06:40:33PM -0400, Stanley Brinkerhoff wrote: >On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 11:13:57PM -0400, Stanley Brinkerhoff wrote: >>> I would love if someone would take a meeting and go over Java from a bit of >>> a mile-high level, assuming the programmer already has experience with >>> PHP/Perl/Ruby/Python/etc (which arguably all work more or less the same) and >>> talk about Java.
>> Takes a lot of guts to walk in here and claim that PHP, Perl, Ruby, and >> Python "all work more or less the same", even "arguably". If I wasn't >> sippin' on a Mojito I'd be inclined to say that those are fightin' words. > Syntax and semantics aside -- I would argue you could teach a class on > "programming with interpreted languages" you could spend 50% of the class > talking in a pseudo-language, Apache and mod_xyz and then have that directly > applicable to any of the languages above. Naturally they each have their own > quirks, if you toss RoR into the mix you need to talk a bit about MVC and how > it deals with databases... 1. Syntax and semantics define a language and what it is used/useful for. 2. There is programming beyond the web. 3. "Quirks" in this case span entire programming paradigms. I'm sure you could find a better word. 4. Funny that you slice the world of programming languages into "interpreted" and "non-interpreted" as if that is incredibly meaningful with regard to what can be done with one language versus another (performance arguments notwithstanding, but only if your application *really* needs performance more than it needs to be done on time). > You can write your code essentially as standalone console code -- add it to a > cgi-bin type of directory, and apache will spawn an intepreter (or use its > mod_xyz) to parse and display the code. Fairly simple, and they all work > similarly. Have you used all of the above languages? I mean, for more than writing a simple CGI script (which appears to be the only use you see for them)? > Dot.net/Java/ZOPE/RoR to some extent (application server based > implementations) > seem to be quite different (though, keep in mind I was asking for someone to > cover Java) in that they have this concept of deploying the application, > persistence, and needing to know a bit more about the architecture that is > crammed down your throat. Um, so what are you comparing? Languages, frameworks, application servers, virtual machines? I don't really get your perspective here. ZOPE is an application server and content management framework built on Python. RoR is a web framework built on Ruby. Java isn't a framework or an application server at all but does ship with a reference virtual machine that is in some ways comparable to the interpreters/virtual machines that are the reference implementations for Python and Ruby. And .Net doesn't even require you to use any particular language. Rather, it's a framework plus a virtual machine that can be used with multiple languages. > No? Not really. Sorry, I'm not trying to be patronizing here, but aren't we beyond the "all languages do pretty much the same thing" phase? What you're saying sounds a lot like "There are two kinds of languages: toy languages and real work languages." -Forest -- Forest Bond http://www.alittletooquiet.net http://www.pytagsfs.org
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