VTux?
On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 22:12 -0400, Joe Golden wrote: > As renaming (rebranding?) is considered, let me point out "vague" has a > generally negative connotation as does "gimp". To geeks this is kind of > cool, but often times the general public doesn't get it. > > I'm embarrassed when I mention I use "the GIMP" for photo editing to > mainstream clients. The GIMP is a great program and VAGUE is a great > group, but if we're considering broader appeal, how 'bout a little more sex: > > * Yankee Silicon Commandos > * Freedom and Liberty Unix Technology Enthusiasts > * Vermont Penguin Programmers > * Catamount Linux Club > * VT Penguin Posse > * Green Mountain Technology Club > * VORTEX > > My 2c and worth every penny ;-) > -- > Joe Golden /_\ http://triangul.us /_\ People, Ideas, Connections > > > Josh Sled wrote: > > "Matthew Weier O'Phinney" <[email protected]> writes: > >> What about thinking of it in terms of "the unix way" -- which focuses > >> on discrete tools, piped together to create complex or new systems? > >> That almost perfectly describes what you discuss above -- and still > >> keeps the "u" in vague. > > > > Well sure, it's a good design philosophy. And one of which I'm > > supportive, of course. :) > > > > But please don't miss my point: I'm not saying "reject unix", I'm saying > > "embrace interesting (potentially non-unix) technology". > > > > ("VermonT Area Group of the-Unix-way Enthusiasts" is pretty horrible, > > you have to admit. ;) > > > > > > Brett Johnson <[email protected]> writes: > >> You can't possibly be enthused about Unix without FOSS, BSD, Linux, Mac, > >> etc. These have played a large role in the history of Unix and it's > >> derivatives. Furthermore, I > >> think when one says Unix most people don't think solely of the traditional > >> HP-UX, Solaris and AIX Unix flavors. Maybe I'm alone (or maybe I'll have > >> the older members > >> swinging at me with bottles defending the reality they grew up with), but > >> to me the term Unix also includes its offshoots, clones and related > >> software (those that follow > >> the principles of Unix). There may be differences between being at an > >> HP-UX terminal and a CentOS terminal, but either way they both largely > >> hold true to many of the Unix > >> principles and are functionally very similar. > >> > >> I think the term Unix is still relevant. My two cents anyway... > > > > Marc Farnum Rendino <[email protected]> writes: > >> "UNIX" is not just a specific product, but a way of life - and it begat > >> OSS, Linux, Mac OS X, etc. > >> > >> It's a living, changing ecosystem and there's nothing wrong with > >> continuing to nod to the founders. :) > > > > As I mentioned, VAGUE has expanded in exactly this way. > > > > I think an explicit focus on FOSS is a core part of VAGUE, and/or > > whatever entity I'm suggesting. > > > > But I propose we go further, still … in some undefined way. > > > > I usually subscribe more to the Bill Hicks school of marketing, but I do > > know this: no one cares to seek out a "unix enthusiasts" group, even if > > they want to do things in the unix tradition, and especially if they > > don't know that, yet. :) > > > > > > Tony Harris <[email protected]> writes: > > > >> I would suggest that changing the focus of the group from Unix (or better: > >> *nix) enthusiasts to essentially technology enthusiasts would produce a > >> totally different group > >> than what we have. I don't often make VAGUE meetings, I confess, but I > >> have tended to see the group as one that is focused on > >> Linux/Unix/BSD/etc.-based FOSS, including a > >> wide range of topics from system administration, programming, and user > >> standpoints. I think there's a real need for having such a group, and I > >> feel it would be a shame if > >> VAGUE became so vaguely defined, so to speak, that it lost its focus on > >> FOSS advocacy. Perhaps if there's enough desire for such a wider group, > >> it might be worth starting > >> another one, and letting VAGUE stay with the more *nix/FOSS hacker focus. > > > > Rubin Bennett <[email protected]> writes: > > > >> I share the opinion that we should not lose focus - there are plenty of > >> other groups out there. > >> Besides, I always thought VAGUE meant Vermont Area Group of Unix-like > >> (ish?) Enthusiasts! > >> > >> However, if we as a group feel like we aren't vibrant enough (thus the > >> idea of a moniker change), then I would suggest getting our collective > >> arses in gear and breathe some life into the organization we've got :) > > > > > > I agree that it would be a different group of people; I think the change > > in focus would allow for a larger, better group. A superset of VAGUE. A > > rising tide lifts all boats, and having more regular meetings over a > > wider set of topics, many of which are "VAGUE-focused" would lead to > > more VAGUE meetings than we've been able to sustain. Said another way: > > would you rather have a group that had good content every month, 6 of > > which were "unixy", or a VAGUE that meets on and off maybe for 6 months > > of the year, and with only 3 presentations? > > > > > > A good example is http://twitter.com/DanBowles/status/24380896554 . > > Would someone start something as narrow as a jquery user's group > > (something I would imagine destined for failure in the sparse hills of > > Vermont) if there was a friendly pan-technology interest group to talk > > about it within? The Microsoft/.NET ecosystem is large enough to be > > self-sustaining, and I don't know how the PHP guys do it, but they seem > > vibrant. :) > > > > What about "unix enthusiasts" would draw in a web developer who develops > > on a Mac and deploys to Google App Engine? Or a Java developer on > > Windows (who's operational peer might deploy on Linux, but that's not > > her concern)? Or someone setting up MySQL on their office Windows > > server? Or someone making HTML5+WebGL+js apps that run on Android > > tablets? Or people doing hardware hacking on Arduino boards? Or people > > building web-services for open street map/GIS data? > > > > (Those last two examples being two of the most-successful VAGUE meetings > > of the last couple of years, btw. :) > > > > If these sorts of meeting started happening under the VAGUE moniker, > > would people complain? I don't think so, as some already did. But it > > does invite the question about the scope of a "unix enthusiasts" group > > … and here we are. :) > > > > Of course the unix tradition is important. Technologies with liberal, > > foss licenses. Projects that are open rather than closed. That value > > privacy and user autonomy. That respect the creator/user's ownership of > > their data, instead of the site's ownership of their data. All those > > "unix tradition" things, that we must struggle to promote, but without > > the (frankly, dying) attachment to "unix". > > > > I seek to frame it in a way that is both broader than VAGUE, but still > > focused concisely and concretely. One where all the (copious! ;) VAGUE > > mailing list traffic would not be out of place, and "VAGUE" meetings > > would still be held. But that was also perhaps more discoverable to and > > inclusive of people of various backgrounds to participate, leading to a > > more self-sustainable community. > > > > > >> I'll stand up and offer to host a November meeting at rbTech if there's > >> interest in a field trip out to EastMont. We could demo our *really > >> damn cool* phone system (the non-FOSS Digium SwitchVOX SMB with the FOSS > >> Asterisk as the base), and/ or talk about our FOSS WANBalancer multi-WAN > >> firewall system that we build (and developed) here. > > > > Thank you for offering. We need more like this, of presentations, > > content, venues, &c. > >
