Fortunately, I'm barely smart enough to follow this detailed and
instructive thread!

I'll just go with the Debian Defaults: rsyslogd with TLS. I think this
is the key to my small success ;-) When everyone in the room is smarter
than you, it's good to have a system in place for whose advice you follow.

Thanx All.

-- 
 Joe Golden /_\ www.Triangul.us /_\ websites with class

On 12/13/2012 09:28 PM, Sam Hooker wrote:
> Madonna mia. Call me. 
> 
> xoxo 
> 
> -sth 
> 
> sam hooker|[email protected]|http://www.noiseplant.com 
> 
> "I have not failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." 
> Thomas Edison 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
>> From: "Shawn T Carroll" <[email protected]>
>> To: [email protected]
>> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 9:21:10 PM
>> Subject: Re: secure remote rsyslog: Thanx
> 
>> Very well put, Sam. Good thoughts, and instructive.
> 
>> On Dec 13, 2012, at 8:41 PM, Sam Hooker < [email protected] > wrote:
> 
>>> Maybe I'm misreading, but I think Rick's, "I don't allow access any
>>> other way, only ssh, with keys, no passwords," meant "only key
>>> authentication is enabled; no password-based methods are." But, in
>>> any event...
>>
> 
>>> The only thing using key-based authentication without a password
>>> has
>>> over traditional password auth, IMHO, is that a trojaned sshd is
>>> not
>>> positioned to receive your password (think MiTM; you are checking
>>> those host key fingerprints, aren't you? ;-)). I wouldn't dream of
>>> removing the passphrase from (i.e., decrypting) the SSH keys I use
>>> to authenticate interactive logins to remote machines. re: Joe's
>>> initial inquiry, we were talking about what are, effectively,
>>> service accounts which need to be able to authenticate unattended.
>>> In this case, the unencrypted private SSH key is a "something you
>>> know" for machines.
>>
> 
>>> Yes, this is susceptible to theft. But careful use of directives in
>>> the authorized_keys files on the server side (think "from=" and
>>> "command="), in conjunction with adherence to the principle of
>>> least
>>> privilege, can at least minimize the scope of the risks posed by
>>> key
>>> theft. Most of the "service accounts" using unencrypted SSH keys on
>>> my servers log into unprivileged accounts on the far end; those
>>> that
>>> are able to log in as root do so to (nearly) identical members of
>>> clusters/host groups with identical functions, such that the actual
>>> exposure isn't appreciably different. (i.e., I'm just as screwed if
>>> you pwn mx0-3 as I am if you jack mx0 alone, so convenience can
>>> reasonably win out in this case.) The majority of the time, I hew
>>> to
>>> a "one key per (remote) function" ethic, e.g.:
>>
> 
>>> [blerg_manager@blort ~]$ ssh -i .ssh/enable-blerg.pub
>>> blerg_manager@blerg1 "/usr/bin/blerg on"
>>
> 
>>> [blerg_manager@blerg1 ~]$ head -1 .ssh/authorized_keys2
>>
>>> from="blort",command="/usr/bin/blerg on" ssh-dss
>>> AAAAB3NzaC...3Y1RXo+pg= enable-blerg@blort
>>
> 
>>> and
>>
> 
>>> [blerg_manager@blort ~]$ ssh -i .ssh/disable-blerg.pub
>>> blerg_manager@blerg1 "/usr/bin/blerg off"
>>
> 
>>> [blerg_manager@blerg1 ~]$ tail -1 .ssh/authorized_keys2
>>
>>> from="blort",command="/usr/bin/blerg off" ssh-dss
>>> AAAABTG7d9...BV98he= disable-blerg@blort
>>
> 
>>> If you're still unconvinced, and can tolerate a requirement for
>>> administrator interaction on reboot, you could use encrypted SSH
>>> keys, and load up one or more ssh-agents with the keys every time
>>> the machine comes up.
>>
> 
>>> In other words: There are options. :-)
>>
> 
>>> Cheers,
>>
> 
>>> -sth
>>
> 
>>> sam hooker| [email protected] | http://www.noiseplant.com
>>
> 
>>> "I have not failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
>>
>>> Thomas Edison
>>
> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
> 
>>>> From: "Stanley Brinkerhoff" < [email protected] >
>>>
>>
>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>
>>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 6:50:49 PM
>>>
>>
>>>> Subject: Re: secure remote rsyslog: Thanx
>>>
>>
> 
>>>> I've always been curious how frequently the (arguably true)
>>>> statement
>>>> that SSH keys are more secure is followed by a "and no password".
>>>> It
>>>> seems to be trading one security mechanism (what you know,
>>>> password)
>>>> for another (what you have, a SSH key).
>>>
>>
> 
>>>> In an instance where your harddrive contents are compromised
>>>> (Malware.. corporate network.. stolen from your trunk..) you've
>>>> lost
>>>> your keys. People who seem to use SSH keys seem to also use them
>>>> throughout their environment, so losing an SSH key to your
>>>> personal
>>>> workstation then lends itself to an attacker gaining access to
>>>> other
>>>> resources.
>>>
>>
> 
>>>> On a 'Windows Domain' this is even more of a concern. With the
>>>> trust
>>>> relationship that allows an attacker to remotely access your
>>>> machine
>>>> with a domain adminstrator credential set your keys are at
>>>> considerably more risk.
>>>
>>
> 
>>>> I prefer a strong password (correcthorsebatterystaple), or a
>>>> strong
>>>> password and a SSH key. Service accounts are about the only place
>>>> I
>>>> use SSH keys w/o passwords.
>>>
>>
> 
>>>> </soapbox>
>>>
>>
> 
>>>> Stan
>>>
>>
> 
>>>> On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Rick Bragg < [email protected] >
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>
> 
>>>>> I allow access to my servers via ssh with keys only. I don't
>>>>> allow
>>>>> access any
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> other way, only ssh, with keys, no passwords... Otherwise no
>>>>> access.
>>>>
>>>
>>
> 
>>>>> My $0.02 ;)
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> Rick Bragg
>>>>
>>>
>>
> 
>>>>>> Thanx Sam. Suspected as much. Cheers.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>> Joe Golden /_\ www.Triangul.us /_\ websites with class
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>> On 12/13/2012 11:01 AM, Sam Hooker wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> Hi Joe,
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> I've tunneled a lot of stuff over SSH, and it's a great
>>>>>>> band-aid,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> always feels heavy-handed. My initial thought is that you're
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> to
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> deal with maintaining/distributing asymmetric crypto one way
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> other. Which is to say: You'd probably want your SSH tunnels
>>>>>>> to
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> re-establish themselves w/o user intervention...which likely
>>>>>>> means
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> key-based auth (unless you've got a Kerberos card you
>>>>>>> haven't
>>>>>>> played
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> yet)...which isn't that much more easily-managed than X.509
>>>>>>> certs
>>>>>>> for
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> TLS. Additionally, since SSH tunnels are bad at bringing
>>>>>>> themselves
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> back to life after link failure without additional glue, and
>>>>>>> rsyslog
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> probably has built-in support for addressing that problem,
>>>>>>> rsyslog's
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> own TLS implementation is probably a win.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> $0.02,
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> -sth
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> sam hooker| [email protected] | http://www.noiseplant.com
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> "To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk."
>>>>>>> Thomas
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> Edison
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>> From: "joe golden" < [email protected] > To:
>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>> Sent:
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>> Thursday, December 13, 2012 10:45:00 AM Subject: secure
>>>>>>>> remote
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>> rsyslog
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>> Anyone have any links or advice for rsyslogd over ssh? Good
>>>>>>>> idea?
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>> Bad idea?
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>> I'm trying to set up centralized logging and might as well
>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>> a secure fashion. Rather not go through the hassle of ssl
>>>>>>>> certs
>>>>>>>> if
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>> not necessary. That said, it looks like rsyslogd with TLS
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>> ( http://www.rsyslog.com/doc/rsyslog_tls.html ) may be the
>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>> go.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>> I live in the Debian flavored world.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers with beers.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>> -- Joe Golden /_\ www.Triangul.us /_\ websites with class
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
> 

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