All fair. So what this comes down to is whether the uniformity of "ref
types are all the same" is one that we want to have trumped by
"non-atomic classes tear in all conditions." Truly a battle for
conceptual supremacy.
On 6/15/2022 2:10 PM, Kevin Bourrillion wrote:
On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 10:51 AM Brian Goetz <[email protected]>
wrote:
- If we spelled .val as !, then switching from P[] to P![] not
only prohibits null elements, but changes the layout and
_introduces tearing_. Hiding tearability behind "non-null" is
likely to be a lifetime subscription to Astonishment Digest, since
99.9999 out of 100 Java developers will not be able to say
"non-null, oh, that also means I sacrifice atomicity."
Well, that's what you opted into when you... wait a minute...
The link you probably want to attack is this last one, where you
are likely to say "well, that's what you opted into when you said
`non-atomic`; you just happen to get atomicity for free with
references, but that's a bonus."
Your Kevin's Brain Emulator has gotten pretty decent over time...
check whether the next things it said were these (probably so):
A good clean Basic Conceptual Model For Novices is allowed to have a
bunch of asterisks, of the form "well, in $circumstance, this will be
revealed to be totally false", and that's not always a strike against
the model. How do we discern the difference between a good asterisk
and a bad one? How common the circumstance; how recognizable as
/being/ a special circumstance; how disproportionate a truth
discrepancy we're talking about; etc.
I know I've said this before. If I'm in a class being taught how this
stuff works, and the teacher says "Now unsafe concurrent code can
break this in horrible ways, and in $otherClass you will learn what's
really going on in the presence of data races" ... I feel fully
satisfied by that. I know I won't get away with playing fast and loose
with The Concurrency Rules; I'm not advanced enough and might never
be. (Many people aren't but /don't /know it, and therein lies the
problem, but do we really have much power to protect such people from
themselves?)
I could be wrong, but I suspect this kind of viewpoint might be more
common and respected in the wider world than it is among the rarefied
kind of individuals who join expert groups, no offense to anyone here
meant. You're always going to see all the details, and you're always
going to /want/ to see all the details. The general public just hopes
the details stay out of their way. When they don't, they have a bad
day, but it doesn't mean they were better served by a complex model
that tried to account for everything.
--
Kevin Bourrillion | Java Librarian | Google, Inc. |[email protected]
