I agree on both points.  I feel that these mailing lists should be for the
odd problems that can't be solved by doing a simple search on google, or
reading through the archives.  But not everyone takes things that far.

As for the rest of it.. It bothers me when I see so much ignorance out there
about these things, or lack of drive to learn.  But the fact that somebody
posts to the list shows that they have some drive to figure these things
out.  I would reccomend to anybody that posts on the list to first search
for your error on  your favorite search engine and check the vpopmail
archives BEFORE posting to the list.  Chances are, somebody else already had
your problem and learned how to fix it.  Those of us that have been on this
list for a while get sick of hearing the same cries over and over for the
same things that have been answered probably hundreds of times.

When I was a novice at this stuff, I worked at a relativley large ISP.
Everyone in my department feared going into the "engineer" room because we
knew they'd chew our heads off and call us an idiot after solving our
problem.  I think it's great that people feel comfortable enough to post to
this list without the fear of being flamed.  You've gotta learn somehow, and
I'll agree that it's usually much easier to learn interactivley from a
person than reading a book.  But please, I urge everyone who ever posts to
any type of list to research your questions before posting.  Usually you can
find your answers quicker than you could waiting around for an email.  And
if you write the list, don't tell us how urgent you problem is and how we
HAVE to fix it for you.  The people that subscribe to these postings do it
free of charge and out of the kindness in their own hearts.  Don't insult us
by telling us to do your job ;), if you want support that quickly then pay
for it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Theodoropoulos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [vchkpw] qmail-inject Error

This would all be fine and dandy - if your construct were correct. I draw
your attention to the word "insist" before your bullet points
below.  "Bullet points" is perhaps ironically apropos - because the fact
is, nobody has a gun to your head. Nobody can compel someone else to
educate them/read documentation for them/etc via email to a mailing list.
It's your choice to respond.

I understand where you are coming from with your rant, but I also believe
we should err on the side of compassion and humanity when dealing with
ignorance (ignorance in the specific form, 'lack of knowledge on the
subject at hand'.) Asking questions is the first step towards learning.
Yes, it is frustrating when the same questions get asked over and over by
different people. I've lost count of the times on the sqwebmail list that
someone has asked a short or long question about something, and Mister Sam
replies simply "See INSTALL".

In my early days learning UNIX systems administration (nine years ago), I
posted to comp.unix.solaris a few times. My questions were not newbie
questions, but compared with what some of the seasoned experts there knew,
the questions were trivial. However, I didn't get flamed for asking a
question that in relative terms to their expertise was a newbie question.
For that I'm thankful. And i've reciprocated many, many times with others,
by sharing my knowledge without judgement. True - if someone comes to me
with the same question three separate times, I'll probably become reticent.

bottom line: answer or don't answer or redirect the questioner to the
appropriate place. But ultimately, it's all your choice. Nobody is forcing
you or anyone else to reply to this person's question.


and that's _my_ rant for the day!   ;^)

At 05:15 AM 9/18/2002, Steve Fulton wrote:
>At 13:37 18/09/2002 +0200, Oliver Etzel - GoodnGo.COM \(R\) wrote:
>It appears you have very little idea of how a unix-like OS works.  I
>suggest you start educating yourself regarding the OS you are using.  Once
>you have a clue about what exactly this "ENV variable" is, then learn
>about how Qmail works at http://cr.yp.to and www.lifewithqmail.org .. even
>better, join the Qmail mailing list at cr.yp.to and ask there.
>My final comment is directed at those who insist:
>1.  We teach the them basics of unix systems administration (or even the
>basic syntax).
>2.  We read the documentation or list archives for them.
>3.  We solve their problems as they are unwilling to make the attempt.
>4.  Or who fail to repeatedly provide a minimum explaination of what the
>problem is, or do so poorly.
>A lot of people spend their precious time assisting others on this list,
>and usually do so without resorting to arrogant and rude tactics.  Just
>because we are *nice* enough to assist does not give anyone carte blanche
>approval to use us.   If you can't figure out the basics, consider hiring
>one of the many talented consultants on this list to solve your problems
>for you -- Your customers will be satisfied and you'll probably find your
>job is more secure because of it.
>-- Steve
>>Hello Peter, hello all,
>> > ..... ? Make sure the program you set with ENV-variable
>> > 'QMAILQUEUE' is executable and does not crash.
>>My Question: How and where can I set the ENV variable?
>>Oliver Etzel
>>flatrate serverhousing www.flathousing.com

Paul Theodoropoulos
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