As do I. NCSU's implementation of VCL is not a separate product. A similar product with the same name isn't being used elsewhere. The move of VCL from NCSU to ASF has been well-publicized.

It seems to me that the naming guidelines make a stronger argument supporting the use of VCL as the project name than otherwise. (

The point which seems most pertinent to me is:
-Reduce the likelihood of confusion

Using a name other than VCL at either Apache or NCSU will cause great confusion.

Another point in the guidelines which supports using VCL as the project name:
-See this as an important marketing opportunity, rather than a bother.

Many people already know about VCL. Academic papers have been published. Talks have been given. News has been written and broadcast. I think it is to Apache's advantage to use the VCL name.


Brian Bouterse wrote:
I like this idea also for the same reasons John mentions.


Brian Bouterse
Secure Open Systems Initiative

On Feb 19, 2009, at 11:12 AM, John Bass wrote:

For what it's worth, I like Josh's idea for several reasons:
- production ncsu service runs from the apache code
- its a great way for ncsu to help promote the apache project
- it helps maintain the community that has been building over the years
- appears to me (a newbee) to support the apache naming policy

John Bass
(919) 515-0154

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Josh Thompson <>wrote:

Hash: SHA1

But what does it mean to "stop using theirs"?  Does it mean the letters
cannot appear anywhere at their site? (I feel really weird saying "their"
since I'm employed at NCSU, but I'll try to stick to saying this with my
hat on).

I feel really strongly that we (ASF) should continue using VCL as the name
the project because that's what it has been know as for the last 5 years. So, I want to work toward figuring out what NCSU must do to allow that to happen. If everything at NCSU gets changed to "Apache VCL at NCSU", would that work? The goal of moving VCL from NCSU to ASF is to allow more people to get involved in development of it, and thus have it used at more places. So, it would make sense to me for multiple places to be able to call their
install of it "Apache VCL at <insert institution name here>".


On Thursday February 19, 2009, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
As Matt pointed out there needs to be a distinction between this ASF
project and its original progenitor, NCSU VCL.  It's quite simple,
either we change our name or they stop using theirs.


On Jan 6, 2009, at 8:18 AM, Josh Thompson wrote:
Hash: SHA1

Maybe we should look at this from a different angle - is there
anything that
*can* happen for the name to continue as "VCL" at ASF?


On Tuesday January 06, 2009, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
Thanks for your comments Matt.

Well, it's after the holidays.  Time to pick this thread back up.
This issue needs to be resolved before we graduate.


On Dec 19, 2008, at 1:01 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:

Thanks for starting the discussion about this.  I think there are a
few different issues so I'll try to separate them.  The issues we
need to address is the trademark of VCL and the other is the
identity of the community.  Perhaps we should talk about these in
reverse order.

First is the identity  of the community.  The move of the
development for the VCL codebase from NC State to Apache marked the
formation of a community outside of NC State.  So, what NC State
decides to do or not to do is not particularly relevant to the
community collaborating at Apache.  Given this separation, perhaps a
different name is appropriate so their is a clear distinction
between NC State's use of VCL and the Apache Incubator's community.

As far as the name goes.  Since Virtualization and hosting is, well,
virtual, perhaps a name like spectre or Casper would be good :)
(ya, I already can see the naming police coming).

On Dec 19, 2008, at 10:19 AM, Henry E Schaffer wrote:
Alan writes:
If VCL is a trademark owned by NCSU then they would have to assign
trademark to the ASF or we would have to change our project's

OK - I think we've reached a very clear question to be resolved.  I
think here's what needs to be resolved (at least in my mind):

If VCL is a trademark owned by NCSU, and If NCSU assigns the
to the ASF - then would ASF give NCSU permission to continue its
site as is (possibly with an acknowledgement to the ASF)?

Alternatively: If VCL is a trademark owned by NCSU, and If NCSU
doesn't assign the ownership to the ASF, but gives permission to
ASF to use
"VCL" as part of naming this ASF project - could, and would the ASF
"AVCL" ("Apache VCL") as the name?  (Or some other formulation
would be an Apache name but clearly portray to users and potential
that it's the same project.)

Does the above make sense?
--henry schaffer

- --
- -------------------------------
Josh Thompson
Systems Programmer
Virtual Computing Lab (VCL)
North Carolina State University

my GPG/PGP key can be found at
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)


- --
- -------------------------------
Josh Thompson
Systems Programmer
Virtual Computing Lab (VCL)
North Carolina State University

my GPG/PGP key can be found at
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)


Andy Kurth
Virtual Computing Lab
Office of Information Technology
North Carolina State University

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