Klaus Schmidinger wrote:
> On 09.05.2009 21:31, Udo Richter wrote:
>> On 08.05.2009 21:42, Pasi Juppo wrote:
>>> The problem is not how to edit but which buttons needs to be pressed to
>>> set cutting marks, which to move them, which to start actual cutting
>>> etc.
>> I agree that the editing key mapping is not very intuitive, at least not 
>> as intuitive as the rest of VDR. I'm not sure how this can be improved 
>> the best way, but I think some 'editing mode' as opposed to normal 
>> 'playback mode' may be a good solution.
>> This 'editing mode' could have some (OSD visible) key mapping like 
>> red->toggle mark, green->jump to last mark, yellow->jump to next mark, 
>> blue->start editing. However, this would make jumping a lot more difficult.
> The color keys are already in use during replay - and I really don't see
> how using the color keys would be any more intuitive than using the
> number keys.
I would not utilize colour keys for this purpose again.

>> Or some mini-onscreen menu? Navigate to 'toggle mark' and press ok? Too 
>> difficult.
>> Switchable key mappings? Not intuitive.
>> And how to go to editing mode? No obvious key is unused or unneeded. 
>> Give it a main menu item when in playback mode?
>> This is probably something that will need several incarnations as a 
>> patch to find a nice and intuitive solution. Any volunteers?
> The only way this could be made "intuitive" is probably by using a
> remote control that has dedicated keys for these functions (and making
> them definable in VDR, but it's already prepared for that - see keys.h).
> Personally I don't find the key mapping that unintuitive. After all,
> the number keys are unused in replay mode, so why not use them for
> editing?
>                   2=Cut
>     4=Move Back              6=Move Forward
>     7=Jump Back   8=Test     9=Jump Forward
>                   0=Toggle
> How about using a marker pen and drawing some symbols onto your remote
> control that indicate these actions?

There are ways to get this particular feature more convenient for the
end user without adding marks to the remote control. Before I continue I
use this opportunity to trash a bit my (Yamaha) receiver's menu system.
I have to pick up manual if I want to store tuned radio channels. Last
time I did it around 8 months ago and now I don't recall anymore how to
do it and the menu with a bunch of buttons is so illogical that you just
cannot find the way to do store channels with trial-and-error method.
This is a bad example of user interface. Good that VDR is far from it
but there is still a room for improvement.

And now back to business. First a quick comment to above number mapping
you have written there. 8=Test, what does it do? Without manual I cannot
tell - it is not obvious to end user. Probably with just pressing and
seeing end user can find out what happens - hopefully nothing bad to the
precious recording he/she is editing..

Udo made a good proposal above. I just modify it a bit. Small OSD for
editing mode which is on all the time during editing (OK, make
visibility configurable to please everyone). In the OSD there is above
written keys with text of the function and also there is the playback
bar showing cut marks etc. like today. Additionally there are colour
keys shown where one has Help assigned, which brings help page on top of
everything. During help the playback of the recording (assuming that
user is in edit mode) is put on pause as end user most likely would like
to read the manual in piece.

What's the difference today's functionality? Very small. Only this time
user is shown more information and is provided help (a man page, if you
like) in case of need.

This was one case but same philosophy can be applied to rest of the VDR
as well as to the plugins. Small additional OSD could be added to show
more info if end user wants to. Pros can turn it off because they know
everything already by heart - rest probably not. And now that there is a
request, which hopefully gets implemented, to made OSD size match
display size then there is more space available for this kind of
features with new HD and HD Ready TVs.

Br, Pasi

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