On Wed, 2012-02-22 at 17:33 +0200, Doron Fediuck wrote:
> On 22/02/12 16:57, Mike Burns wrote:
> > There has been a lot of interest in being able to run stateless Nodes
> > with ovirt-engine.  ovirt-node has designed a way [1] to achieve this on
> > the node side, but we need input from the engine and vdsm teams to see
> > if we're missing some requirement or if there needs to be changes on the
> > engine/vdsm side to achieve this.
> > 
> > As it currently stands, every time you reboot an ovirt-node that is
> > stateless, it would require manually removing the host in engine, then
> > re-registering/approving it again in engine.  
> > 
> > Any thoughts, concerns, input on how to solve this?
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > Mike
> > 
> > [1] http://ovirt.org/wiki/Node_Stateless
> > 
> 
> Some points need to be considered;
> 
> - Installation issues
> 
> * Just stating the obvious, which is users need
> to remove-add the host on every reboot. This will
> not make this feature a lovable one from user's point of view.

Yes, this is something that will cause this to be a non-starter.  We'd
need to change something in the engine/vdsm to make it smoother.
Perhaps, a flag in engine on the host saying that it's stateless.  Then
if a host comes up with the same information, but no certs, etc, it
would validate some other embedded key (TPM, key embedded in the node
itself), and auto-approve it to be the same state as the previous boot

> 
> * During initial boot, vdsm-reg configures the networking
> and creates a management network bridge. This is a very
> delicate process which may fail due to networking issues
> such as resolution, routing, etc. So re-doing this on
> every boot increases the chances of loosing a node due
> to network problems.

vdsm-reg runs on *every* boot anyway and renames the bridge.  This is
something that was debated previously, but it was decided to re-run it
every boot.

> 
> * CA pollution; generating a certificate on each reboot
> for each node will create a huge number of certificates
> in the engine side, which eventually may damage the CA.
> (Unsure if there's a limitation to certificates number,
> but having hundreds of junk cert's can't be good).

We could have vdsm/engine store the certs on the engine side, and on
boot, after validating the host (however that is done), it will load the
certs onto the node machine.  

> 
> * Today there's a supported flow that for nodes with
> password, the user is allowed to use the "add host"
> scenario. For stateless, it means re-configuring a password
> on every boot...

Stateless is really targeted for a PXE environment.  There is a
supported kernel param that can be set that will set this password.
Also, if we follow the design mentioned ^^, then it's not an issue since
the host will auto-approve itself when it connects

> 
> - Other issues
> 
> * Local storage; so far we were able to define a local
> storage in ovirt node. Stateless will block this ability.

Yes, this would be unavailable if you're running stateless.  I think
that's a fine tradeoff since people want the host to be diskless.
> 
> * Node upgrade; currently it's possible to upgrade a node
> from the engine. In stateless it will error, since no where
> to d/l the iso file to.

Upgrade is handled easily by rebooting the host after updating the pxe
server

> 
> * Collecting information; core dumps and logging may not
> be available due to lack of space? Or will it cause kernel
> panic if all space is consumed?

A valid concern, but a stateless environment would likely have
collectd/rsyslog/netconsole servers running elsewhere that will collect
the logs.  kdumps can be configured to dump remotely as well.  
> 

Another concern raised is swap and overcommit.  First version would
likely disable swap completely.  This would disable overcommit as well.
Future versions could enable a local disk to be used completely for
swap, but that is another tradeoff that people would need to evaluate
when choosing between stateless and stateful installs.

Mike

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