your pretty close there Pete...........but as far as "Classic" proportions go, a tip and or tag should take up ONLY the space between both "points." Betwen the point of the barb and the point of the hook. THAT, and ONLY THAT is where tip and or tag go. Between the points, PERIOD! But hey.........that stuff is from 150 yrs. ago...........when doin' artistic flies.............anything goes.
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:41:47 -0400 Subject: [VFB] Re: ok update on the ronn lucas sr lessons From: pete.gr...@gmail.com To: email@example.com On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 5:41 PM, <mystikalra...@frontiernet.net> wrote: >let me know what you all think so say what you would like and be totally >honest pls Be totally honest? We're fishermen, come on, that's difficult. But let me tell you about that hundred-trout day, all caught on a single size 34 hook ...;) If you are serious and want serious advice, let me start by saying I like the fly exactly as it is - and for the 'fish- catching' abilities, I'd be surprised if a fish turned up its nose (do trout have noses?) at this fly! If you're looking for advice for the 'classic proportions', I'll give that to follow, but only with the disclaimer that I don't know who came up with these "rules" and that they take the innovation and, essentially, the fun out of the whole thing... enough beating round the bush... the body is just the slightest smidgen of a bit too far rearward. You want the tag to stop above the tip of the point of the hook of the fly... don't confuse the point with the barb, as I did for the longest time. The peacock tail is (again, if you're seeking 'classic' convention) to start above the space right prior to the hook point (where the floss meets up with the tag) and extend a length of 2/3rds the length of the shank (so two thirds of the distance from where the hook eye meets the shank to the point above the point) That's if you're tying for 'classic proportions' and not 'hey, it looks nice, and it'll catch fish'. The floss work is great - spot on! in theory the rib should have 5 turns from tag to (under the thorax) the wing seating... not sure I buy it, but it is an arbitrary target that keeps me from over-ribbing when I tie, so I thought I'd pass that on. Someone once told me at a show that the width (height?) of the tail should match the hook gap, and that the thorax (the peacock just behind the wing) should be that thick as well. I'm not sure I buy that whole statement, or that it is 'classic' proportion, but it really got me tying fuller thoraxes of good proportions, to shoot for such a thick thorax and fall short, only to equal the thickness of what I wanted. Sounds silly, but I seriously took a good half a year of so, when I first started, before realizing that you can use more than one piece of herl to tie a thorax... I know, not the brightest bulb in the lighting section... The wing is a little full for MY tastes, but it is angled at a decent angle... maybe a TAD less incline, but that's also a personal tastes thing. Yeah, I'll unfortunately agree with Mark, and again I emphasize that if you are tying for fun or fishing, this is all hogwash anyhow - but if you want to tie to "classic" proportions, you want to start the thorax 3 hook-eye-widths (if you look at the hook eye and measure only the horizontal width - with the eye diagonal like in your photo - and then copy that 3 times, starting at where the shank meets the eye and moving towards the tail), that;s where the thorax should start - it feels too soon when tying, for me it's because I like the look and feel of tying a grandiose body, but it's just about right. So start the thorax about 3 hook eyes back, wrap two of those three with thorax, give or take. Mount the wing and hackle, wrap, tie off, etc, and then finish the head with as few wraps as possible - a trick I learned is that you use 3 wraps for the wing - that's it - and 2 for the hackle - that's it. Then when you go to tie the head, you're essentially adding the wraps that you wanted to add to secure the wing and hackle in the first place. All of this to say, yeah, the head is kinda crowded. I've said it before - is it "wrong"? not a chance. But if you are seeking "classic" proportions, yeah, it is a bit crowded. All in all, a really great tie! Personally, I tie realistics (some call it "sculpting" and not "tying", so I'll throw that disclaimer out there), so can be over-the-top when it comes to proportions... but in the same breath I say that I also tie flies to fish with - for those, proportions be darned! If it catches fish, who cares? We can all offer tips and suggestions, but in the end, it is ultimately your opinion of it (or a fish's, if you choose to wet the fly) that truly matters. Just my 2 cents worth, -Pete _________________________________________________________________ New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pc-scout/default.aspx?CBID=wl&ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_pcscout:102009 --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" group. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---