It is a very interesting trend/subject. Off shore flies do vary widely in both quality and price. In general, as you stated, you get what you pay for. A notable percentage of the ties from "off shore" are very good and are priced well, so long as the middle guys eyes don't get real big :-) I am of the believe that by offering a good mix of both domestic and high quality off shore flies, the "fly buying public" will be well served. The problems in doing both are two fold. When the House of Harrop and Al Beatty agreed to provide troutflies.com flies, I was thrilled, but in the same breath I had to realize that my cost was greater than what I sell "off shore" ties for retail. Few if any domestic tying houses have a huge number of tiers working full time, so availability can be limited as well. Considering the prices we have paid for all the FF'ing accoutrements, saving a dime or two on the fly seems odd to me :-)
Harry -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:majordomo-owner@;troutnet.com] On Behalf Of Don Ordes Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 8:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [VFB] re: now I'm curious To those interested, If you have a chance to attend the IFTDS, and you must be a retailer/Dist./Whslr. to do so, you will find both USA tied and foreign tied wholesale flies. I've been attending them for about 10 years now, and have watched the trends. There is controversy over the issue, and it won't be settled by anyone but flyfishermen. The flies marketed are of mixed origins, and even USA based fly shops include many flies tied overseas. It's just plain cheaper to do this. The situation is no different than in any other piece industry, where the 'sweat-shop' worker puts in long days for '$2/day', but he is also doing well in his community at that price. Indonesia is the chief source for foreign flies that I'm seeing right now, especially Thailand (Tieland?). They are reasonably well skilled at what they do, and the flies are much better (and much more difficult) than the old Chinese flies that fell apart as soon as they got wet. Feelings run the gamut. "Let the market determine everything, no more artificial controls." ; "Cheap Imports"; "International community effort" ; "Buy USA- support our economy"; "Domestic flies just can't compete in the price war", and so on. Just about anyone can get flies tied for 10 cents a piece from over there, and how well you handle middle-man escalation determines how competitive you'll be. Training and QC is another matter. You just about have to live there to guarantee your interests, the market is so competitive. New fly designs are the hot ticket right now, with so many new materials out there. I saw a table just jam packed with new design flies, probably 100 of them. These were not just variations, but new and old materials used in ingenious ways. The gamut of flies is unbelievable- bluewater, inshore salt, steelhead & salmon, trout, warmwater- just 100's of new patterns. There are some custom fly designers doing well, though they are few. So there is a market for top-of-the-line specialty flies, classic salmon flies, and art flies/collectibles. But these designers reach saturation fairly quickly, and burn-out is not far behind. The only recourse is to have secondary tiers, and the profitable way is to tap the foreign market, training them to tie your patterns. Then your fly designs are open season, as they (the foreign operations) couldn't care less about our copyright laws. Just try to enforce them in another country, and a poor 3rd world one at that. Just more controversy- nothing is simple anymore. So domestic professional tiers do have a market based on quality, accessibility, customization, personal contact, and reasonable pricing. Capitalize on these and one can tie successfully. The mass catalog markets, though, are more questionable. You may get great flies from an experienced tier, or you may get crummy flies from a trainee. USA markets are utilizing a lot of native American tiers, and this has its own unique advantages and drawbacks. As I said in the beginning, flyfishermen-the fly buyers- will determine the outcome. It is and will be essentially market controlled. The old saying still holds true...'You get what you pay for'. Just remember the fruit comes from the roots. Just my personal observations, DonO
