Nick, Your comments are just the reason why I wanted to keep this thread alive and focused on experiences and the analysis of those experiences. I can share an experience with you, but I can't give you that experience. I can share my analysis with you, and it may or may not help. But if we don't learn from others, why do we read books? Why does one write a book?
Your comment on farm-raised fish is very appropriate, as a popular fly around many places is a fishfood pellet fly. And ANY experience you have is welcome in this forum. What I'm hoping for is enough experiences shared here that we can come to some meaningful consensus about patterns and presentations that we, especially newer ones, can stick in a file folder named 'fishing tips', like I have. I'm as interested in learning something new as anyone else. I've already got rainbow warriors on my 'to tie' list. Thanks, Joyce. Sounds like a simple, good use for this forum. It doesn't cost anything. Thanks for all the great posts so far- they are all stored for safekeeping and future referral. DonO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Niclas Runarsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [VFB] Re: presentation vs pattern- the great debate rages on... Actually Jimi, I wasn't really serious. My post where written with a pinch of humour and it wasn't meant to be a part of the debate. You might have noticed that among ALL these posts about this, you haven't seen a single one from me (and you know I'm not shy with posting on the list). I've just seen this debate as "not for me to participate in". You guys have way more field experience behind you on which you can look back and build an opinion that you believe in, and that's what statistics should be built upon... large numbers of events. "It was presentation that did it that time and it was the pattern this time, so that means 50% each."... is not statistics. I do have more than 2 events to look back on, but you understand my point. I don't have DECADES of comparing and analyzing, like many of you have. Furthermore, I don't have much WILDWATER fishing behind me and I wouldn't believe in building my opiinion based on what fish raised on pellets think is most important... presentation or pattern. And I sure wouldn't build my opinion on what I hear or what I read... since that would just mean forwarding someone elses opinion. But without giving fuel to either side in the debate, I think I can say at least ONE thing in this that I belive in. What I think is that this is a quite individual issue, since everyone build their statistics on THEIR beliefs in what defines pattern/presentation... and on THEIR history of fishing... and on what seems most important in the waters THEY are fishing (and have fished). What makes the issue even more fluid are all coincidental factors, like: WHEN did they fish those waters. Was it one of those days that year the trout felt that way?... Or: When they changed fly, was the difference between the patterns big enough to establish that 'the pattern was what made it take'. Who can tell if the fish wouldn't have taken on the next drift? Things we can't answer make things fluid......... Correct me and hack on me, but I will still believe in what I wrote. I'm an analytical person with a NEED to dig deep in debates, theories and chains of events. What I wrote is just my view on the debate. If this issue would have been a thing I knew absolutely nothing about, I would still have written the same thing. So, keep on fighting. I haven't said anything that puts me in either category, but I sure follow this debate with great interest. ;o) /Nick -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fr�n: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] F�r Desert Eagle Skickat: den 2 november 2004 13:33 Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED] �mne: Re: [VFB] Re: presentation vs pattern- the great debate rages on... Actually Nick, that was just used for reference. The fly shop at Ruidoso does have a dry erase board by the counter. Each day they give updates of which patterns are catching what and on what water. This will change and be added to throughout each day as folks come in. They also list any hatches and on what water it is happening and about when. Whenever we do get up there that is my first stop and see what the skinny is. They are getting snow and freezing rain right now, so wont think about heading up there any time soon. Jimi > (lets say this weeks top fly at the local waters fly shop). Following this debate and analyzing it turns I wonder: Can it be right to put a "this is the week's top fly" note on the fly shop wall, making a tourist go home fishless? Shouldn't it be more right (or at least AS right) to have it say "this is the week's top angler", to give the tourists a chance to consult him about his presentation? /Nick
