I'm only part of the way through this thread, but I figure I'd weigh in on Mike's comment with a short thought:
What battle are we fighting? 1. Getting everyday people to make and publish their own media? 2. Debating semantic details of technology that is inevitably going to evolve over time? I'm just sayin'. ER --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Meiser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > No offense Sull, but enclosing FLV is a pipe dream... it's a web > based playback object only... in so far as people DON'T have optional > donloadable/ portable/ OPEN / enclosable formats also available it > won't go anywhere. I LOVE the fact FireANT mac supports it, I wish > everyone did... I'd love to revlog some of my favorite flash... but > Fireant mac... that's IT. > > AND that's just for starters... > > The format is CLOSED, CLOSED, CLOSED... there is no remixing, little > to no opportunity to format shift... no way to even ensure the FLV is > downloadable, copyable or shareable without screwing around with each > file every time. And no I don't consider giving someone a url to a > page sharing. Sharing involves a taking into posession... and you > can't dowload or copy 50% of all flash media.. and furthermore > there's no telling what you can download and copy unless you know > what you're doing and try it. > > And yes, I'm specifically talking about google video. It's a trap... > a dead end.... mark my words no future will come of google video in > it's current state, not without a 180 change in direction. It's a > toy.... it has no outward looking search... and nothing else can > search it. It's a walled garden... a darknet that just happens to > have be "pretty"... it has NO interoperability with any other service > whatsoever... not yahoo video search or infoseek... no blogging or > video podcasting... no webjay... no NOTHING. > > Untill they provide media permalinks to non-locked down media / > portable / dowloadable / encloseable media... and untill they roll > out with a tool that searches video on the other 99.999% of the web > it's a freaking test tube toy and I don't even care. It's relevance > is BUNK! > > I mean where would google's legendary web page search be today if > they'd say, heh! we're offering web hosting and our search is going > to work for the pages we host? Plus noone else can search our web > pages! We're going to rock the world! With WHAT I'd say... the > search has no value when it doesn't search the other 99.999% of the > web and the hosting doesn't work when anything uploaded is completely > trapped in their system and not accessible for anything more than > looking pretty... do not be confused by the slick little flash > interface. They're doing what for the search of video I ask! NOTHING! > Absolutely NOTHING! > > 1) Google video is no search solution... search solutions are what > google offers... IT'S their CORE SERVICE... untill google search > becomes a true search solution and you can find videos on the whole > of the web it's nothing but a malformed test tube baby. It's > potential to solve any of the larger issues of finding videos is MUTE. > > 2) ...and as far as hosting... like I said... anyone is better... why > bother uploading your videos when you can't even download them? > Forget the FLV issue... these are YOUR videos... how are you going to > share these videos... bookmark them with delicious and go to them one > by one!? Email around urls! Heh this isn't spam I swear it... check > out my video! Great, awesome for you. How am I going to comment on > these videos... how am I going to quote them... "you know about half > way in when you do that one thing"... great! Can you put them on your > blog and make ad revene from them? WHAT IF ANYTHING CAN YOU DO WITH > THEM? ... oh... you can LOOK at them... oh so pretty in their > impenatrable glass boxes... completely inaccessible for anything > other than looking at... heh... you can always screen snap them! > Now that's all we're doing here in the vlog world, right... it's just > stuff to "look at" that's all, right? It's not anything more than > just looking, right? I create stuff for people to look at... heh... > look at that... look at this.. I looked at that... did you look at > that? It's right there on google video for you to look at. > > These google videos fundamentally locked down to google's pages... > think of them as googles whores... it makes about as much sense as > the Music industry buying into Apple's DRM and then bitching, why the > heck does this only work with the ipod!? Why should apple have a > monopoly? Why... because you wanted it non-interroperable you fucks > and that's what you got! Wake up and smell the coffee. > > Closed platforms are BUNK ... they have no future... they're > fundamentally inaccessible, have limited usability, no findability or > searchability outside of that which is provided, and no > flexibility... you get the damn play button and the slide bar > because that's what google said you could have bitch ... want a > timestamp... screw you... no flash plugin.. screw you... want it on > your ipod...screw you... want to put it in a playlist with your other > home movies... screw you... want to project it on a damn wall.. screw > you... want to quote it.. .screw you... play it at your wedding, > barmitzfa, family reunion... just as long as you don't mind playing > it in the google web page and have a highspeed connection! > > ARE YOU ALL FOLLOWING ME? There's this thing... it's called fair > use... it's a suggestion that perhaps the creator might not have an > idea of every intended use for media in the world... there's this > thing called digital rights management... and don't tell me google > isn't using digital rights management... you're rights to use that > content are completley and totally "managed". a duck is a duck no > matter what you call it. ANyway digital management assumes that > every concieved usage for content is known... google assumes they > know the one possible concieved usage of a video... and that's all > you'll ever need people... if you agree... good for you... you know > it's your choice... yeah, I'm being condesending here, glad you noticed. > > Google have decided you WILL watch the file in their web page in a > browser with flash and that's IT PERIOD. Argue with that.. and argue > that none of the other infinite possibilities matter... do it... I'm > egging anyone on... I'm picking a fight... something I never do... > but I won't hesitate to pick a fight on this... google video is a > fucking TRAP! > > So, why bother with a born loser... And I do mean born loser... still > born, whatever you want to call it... unless google suddently does a > 180 one day out of the blue and says we bless they merry gentleman > with media permalinks... to direct downloadable files... and stops > limiting their search to only videos people have uploaded to them I > could care less about their service... I'm going to go use an OPEN > hosting service like blip or archive.org... something ACCESSIBLE... > and a search tool like yahoo that allows me to find things on the > other 99.999% of the web. > > Google video is just another tyrant in a long line of tyrants... I > can't understand why anyone would bother? All hail the tyrant is > dead! All hail the new tyrant! > > Yeah, I'm picking a fight on this one, I don't normally speak quite > this boldly in comdemnation but, fuck google video. > > GOOGLE VIDEO IS A MEDIA TRAP! > > Got that! Ok... I saved the best for last... GOOGLE VIDEO DOESN'T > WORK FOR VLOGGERS AT ALL!!! What need more I say. Argue with that! > Enclose that! Stick that in your itunes, fireant, DTV, iPod, PSP... > stick it in your web page... YOU CAN'T! Use google to find the > videos on your blog, you're friends vlog... heh where's my videos in > google... heh where's rocketbooms! Andrew, sorry to use you as an > example but you started this. Are you going to upload all your > rocketboom videos to google so they'll appear in google's search > engine... what kind of revenue opportunities do you think you'll make > from that one link google blesses your homepage with? I laught... > the idea of google's utility is absurd... Google does not include > vlogs in it's search... google does not allow it's videos to be > vlogged! What need more be said! > > How did I allowed myself to get sucked into this pointless discussion > anyway... Google video sucks... end of story... I think I've made my > point... next question please. > > -Mike > > On Dec 23, 2005, at 10:52 AM, Michael Sullivan wrote: > > flash video has grown on me. > i used to spit on it in relation to videoblogging/vodcasting. > the one gripe that still prevails is that you cant remix it.... so it > excudes that part of this culture. which sucks bad. you could > transcode flv to mp4 of course, but its another step and potential > lossy issues. > > but, flv has a very important role that should not be ignored by > anyone... businesses focus on it for good reason. > you may not be able to remix it easily, but you can share it...and > everyone can play it online and soon offline playback will be mor > ecommon too. > > and as soon as XSPF video player is ready, that will be huge. > even without XSPF, there are other xml playlist formats that flv > players use. > playlists, in my opinion, are a huge part of our culture. revlogs are > playlists. metafeeds are playlists etc. > > even fireant and others will eventually have proper support for flv > playback if not already. > imagine if flv played on the video iPod. it could if *they* chose to > allow it. > maybe macromedia or some other company will one day come out with a > device that does? imagine that. some cell phones already do, right? > > sull > > On 12/23/05, Jay dedman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I was never meaning to suggest Flash is the way to go for most people > > and also I didn't even expect hotlinking, etc into one's website or > > aggregator. I wasn't suggesting anyone on this list drop anything for > > Google. > > I really only just brought it up as a stepping stone for newbees or > > people who would want to do video without a committed life of > > videoblogging. > > I think its a good and easy way to get your videos online if you are > > not a hard core videoblogger. I think its much easier than any other > > solution, its dependable and fast and it seems like its a nice > > sandbox for people who would like to experiment with the idea of > > having video that they make online. > > agreed. > maybe gogle might connect google video with blogger one day. > all the pieces are there. > > i was just bringing up the flash discussion...becasue i see that its > becoming very popular in some circles. > > jay > > > -- > Adventures in Videoblogging > <URL: http://www.momentshowing.net> > < http://feeds.feedburner.com/Momentshowing> > <http://getFireAnt.com> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > -- > sull > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > "The hybrid or the meeting of two media is a moment of truth and > revelation from which new form is born" > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > http://vlogdir.com - The Videoblog Directory > http://videobloggers.org - Free Videoblog Hosting / Vlogosphere > Aggregator > http://interdigitate.com - on again off again personal vlog > > SPONSORED LINKS > Individual Fireant Typepad > Use > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). 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