The HTTP "no-cache" header does NOT just pertain to browser caching. It's also used by transparent web caches, and other web caching systems. Caching, on the web, takes place at all sorts of places and on all sorts of levels. (You're ISP is very very likely doing alot of caching, and serving your cached data even though you don't know it. And these web caches [are suppose to] pay attention to the HTTP "no-cache" header.)
Also, as I mentioning, I was NOT trying to address all the points you made. Just one of them. Just caching. (I'm not trying to take anything away from any of you other points. Just trying to contribute to the discussion.)
This issue of the HTTP "no-cache" header seems very relevant since this web caching (particularly with transparent caches) "downloads and redistributes" content. And, over and over again, this has been held up as being legal in court. And this applys to some of what people here (including you) are saying that Veoh did wrong.
(And I hope everyone reads this last paragraph, and doesn't just skip/ignore it and just respond to the othe stuff I wrote.) I'm not trying to say what Veoh has done wasn't wrong. I'm just thinking out loud. If this goes to court, Veoh's lawyers are going to say all this. So why wouldn't we bring up these points amoung ourselves too?! And consider all this with as much information as we can?!
See ya
On 4/9/06, Joshua Kinberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Uh, dude, this is so far off the subject.
I'm not talking about browser caching.
I'm talking about downloading videos from one server to another and then redistributing them as your own. Different subject entirely and not one having to do with HTTP protocol.
-JoshOn 4/9/06, Charles Iliya Krempeaux < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Helo Josh,
Just to address one very very specific thing that you said. (And not trying to address everything you said.)
The HTTP protocol has a way of tell things not to cache something. HTTP has a "no-cache" header for this.
(Again I know people will probably very passionately NOT like what I'm about to say, but I'll say it anyways just to present another point of view in all this....) Many people will argue that the way you use the HTTP protocol constitutes a (legal) contract. That if you do NOT use the "no-cache" HTTP header, that you have given others legal permission to cache it.
Now please note that I do NOT know if any vlogger is using HTTP "no-cache" header or not. And I do NOT how if Veoh is respecting the HTTP "no-cache" header or not. Just trying to give everyone a perspetive on the technology side of things. (One note though. If you do specify the "no-cache" header, then your site will be ALOT slower. Letting others cache things speeds things up alot more than you probably realize. If anyone wants an explaination of how this works, let me know, and I'll provide it.)
Also, just to say it again, I am only trying to address one very specific point that you made Josh -- the point about caching.
Another point.... I say this knowing that I'll probably get flamed for it, but I think it's important to not to ignore points and try to silence them just because we don't like hearing them.... (After all, if this would go to court, anyone else with a bit of knowledge of Internet Technology and Law will probably tell you this....) Veoh could argue that part of what they are doing is acting like a web cache. And since Web Caching has held up in court, as being legal over and over again, that their caching of video is also legal. (Of course, this assumes that their software has been properly coded to act as a web cache.)
See yaOn 4/9/06, Joshua Kinberg < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:I think copyright is only one part of the problem here. The bigger
problem in my eyes is that by Veoh caching and rehosting videos
without permission they are making it seem as though all these
vloggers are members of the Veoh community, agreeing to Veoh's terms
of service, when this is not the case. This is deceitful practice.
Its not just about link backs or adhereing to CC licenses (though that
is part of the problem). Its also about my right as a user to decide
whether or not I'd like to participate in an web community or not.
Veoh cannot make this decision for me and then tell me I have the
opportunity to "opt out" when in fact I never chose to "opt in."
-Josh
On 4/9/06, Charles Iliya Krempeaux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've been following the various threads on this. And my take on it is
> this....
>
> The big issue here revolves around Copyright, Copyright Infringement, the
> Creative Commons, Fair Use and reform of Copyright law.
>
>
> The arguing has come close to turning into a "flame war". (I know some will
> say that it has already gotten there.)
>
> Many people are (quite passionately) asserting that Veoh is committing
> Copyright Infringement. And want Veoh punished. Although some just want
> Veoh to just remove their video.
>
> Some people (that are licensing their work under a Creative Commons license)
> are asserting that Veoh is violating Creative Commons licenses, and that
> they need to do certain thing to adhere to these licenses.
>
> And some are saying that, given that we want changes and reform in
> Copyright law, that we should NOT be so harsh with Veoh. That changes in
> Copyright law will require Social Change. And that often, to effect Social
> Change good people must choose to disobey the law.
>
> (I know I've probably missed some stuff. But this is my take on it, from
> what I've absorbed from trying to keep up with the flurry of messages. If
> anyone wants to chime in to add anything, feel free.)
>
>
> See ya
>
>
>
> On 4/8/06, Monique Danielle < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> >
> >
> > Please forgive me, but I haven't followed this thread, and I'm too lazy to
> reread everything.
> >
> > Is anyone willing to summarize why the emails and emotions are flying
> here? If veoh charging folks to view others videos? I'm just curious about
> the core problem here.
[...]
--
Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
charles @ reptile.ca
supercanadian @ gmail.com
developer weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/
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