Since I never implied one is exactly like the other, the similarities were only used to make a point... and the fact that we can also list several differences doesnt kill my point.
We can speculate on anything and everything from any service out there.
It's fantastic that the community blew the whistle which resulted in change.
But what happens if speculation gets out of control? As i tested... it comes off nasty and is a mess.
I know blip is prob the most legit project out there and I dont expect any shady decisions coming from the blip camp. But what if someone started shouting that blip is free now only so they can later charge you or make things inconvenient... that its free in order to get users which helps to get more users etc... its the oldest model out there and someone can easily speculate on what blip is up to. I have heard blip say clearly that they will not ever remove already upoaded content or force people to upgrade and I believe that. But this aint about me.
Speculation sucks and can be used against anyone. There are always grey areas that can be twisted to seem like an evil plot. I think this group has done enough of this in regards to Veoh. Let's not regurgitate it over and over. Let's be happy that a company was willing to change, and did change and hope that they will continue to do the right thing going forward. Change is what calls for action can result in.... but then it's easy to get over the top and continue negative trajectory.... and when it comes from 'competing services' it bothers me.
sull
On 4/20/06, Mike Hudack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have to disagree that "veoh is also an aggregator". OK... technically they are "also an aggregator". But if blip.tv started pulling in all the videos hosted on Vimeo, would you call us an aggregator? Our line of business is still clear, isn't it?
Veoh is a media hosting service, and other capabilities (i.e. aggregation) are ancillary features designed to reinforce the core. The strategy behind the aggregation is clear:Aggregation is a boot-strapping mechanism. It's a reaction to the classic chicken & egg problem: In order to get uploaders you need content to attract them, in order to get content you need uploaders. I'd imagine that any video hosting service that's had trouble attracting uploaders has considered such a strategy.
- draw eyeballs with content aggregated from elsewhere;
- transform some percentage (probably somewhere around 3%) of those eyeballs into uploaders;
- eventually phase out the outside content in favor of content coming from these new uploaders.
I agree with you that stats are a solvable problem. When we first conceived blip.tv, we were going to be an aggregator (this was before we realized that there weren't any reliable videoblog hosting services out there to aggregate from). We put together some proposals for statistics sharing across services -- these proposals were what gave rise to Video Vertigo at Vloggercue. Veoh made no such attempt.
As far as affordable hosting, I agree and disagree. Affordable hosting is important, but only insomuch as it is a means to an end. The important thing is making videoblogging sustainable. Remember that affordable hosting is not the only thing necessary for making videoblogging sustainable in the long term. Some videobloggers have already gone full-time to work on their projects. Affordable (or free) hosting doesn't put food on the table. Re-hosting actually actively takes food off the table.
Yours,
Mike
Co-founder, blip.tv
On 4/20/06, Michael Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Right on, but you have to admit there are inevitably similarities since
> veoh also is an aggregator....at least that is a part of it.
> It can also be argued that veoh can be used as a 'personal tool' as well for
> personal aggregation. Lots of grey.
>
> I agree that stats are important to content creators, but its too early to
> assume that veoh cannot provide stats that can be conceivable merged with
> stats from other media sources that a content creator may be using. let's
> face it, going forward people will prob be utilizing more than one server
> and platform to distribute each piece of media... including arhival servers
> like IA and P2P networks like veoh. It just a matter of accumulating the
> relevent stats and being able to provide it to potential sponsors etc...
> We cannot assume that this is unachievable and hence say that a servic elike
> veoh is bad because it splits stats up.
> More important to stats is an affordable way to distribute quality video.
> If you can do that, then their is less need for sponsors to help pay for
> premium hosting services. Circles :)
>
> sull
>
>
>
>
> On 4/20/06, Mike Hudack < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
>
> Please keep in mind when reading this e-mail that I run blip.tv , and so my
> opinion on Veoh is necessarily biased as they are a competitor. While I
> have an opinion of Veoh as a member of this community, and an opinion of
> them as a competitor, it may be hard to seperate the two.
>
> Wearing my bias on my sleeve, some ideas off the top of my head:
>
>
> Mefeedia is not a hosting service and is clearly an "aggregator"
> Mefeedia's home page refers to it as "The easiest way to find free video
> podcasts"
> Veoh's home page refers to it as "The Internet's first peercasting network"
> This distinction is important. Nothing about Veoh's homepage (or Web site
> in general) suggests that any videos may be coming from anywhere other than
> Veoh itself. This is in stark constrast to Mefeedia.
> Mefeedia does not modify the original file in any way;
> Mefeedia always provides credit and link-back;
> Mefeedia serves the video from the original source so that statistics and
> advertising can be included (this is extremely important. The practice of
> transcoding and re-hosting can rob videobloggers of real money if they're
> inclined to put advertisements in their videos);
> Mefeedia in no way attempts to hide the nature of its video content, or the
> fact that it comes from elsewhere.
>
> But, most importantly:
>
>
> Mefeedia is designed and intended as a *personal tool.* It's a video
> aggregator that happens to be on the Web, much like Bloglines is a text
> aggregator that happens to be on the Web. It is not a "destination site" in
> the traditional sense.
> I remember going to the frontpage of veoh.com and finding that 3/4 of the
> "Most Recent" videos that had been "added 4 minutes ago" were originally
> uploaded to blip.tv . By every single indication, aside from a tiny link
> noting that the videos came from a user called "Unclaimed RSS" (itself
> buried a page or two deep), these videos were uploaded to Veoh by their
> original creators.
>
> It should be noted, by the way, that I have *no* problem with off-site
> distribution. We offer lots of features designed to enable it, in fact.
> The problem is off-site distribution which is conducted without any explicit
> (or even implicit) permission from the original content creator.
>
> Yours,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> On 4/20/06, Michael Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > it is not "way different".
> > so, tell me like i'm a 5 year old, michael. what is the issue... because
> it seems to me that your 2 points infer attribution concerns and are also
> speculation, which gets us nowhere at this point.
> >
> > look, i'm seeing this whole thing from a middle seat. i've plainly said
> what i didnt like about veoh and likewise what i do like and that i am very
> pleased at the response taken.
> >
> > sull
> >
> >
> >
> > On 4/20/06, Michael Verdi < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I don't think this is the issue. Mefeedia is a directory/aggregator -
> that links to videoblogs. FireAnt is an aggregator with a directory that
> links to videoblogs.
> > >
> > > This is way different than being a distribution system that appears as
> if they have all of these videobloggers that have chosen to host their stuff
> on their servers.
> > >
> > > Like you said, it's what you do with the content. Yes Veoh has stopped
> doing what they we're doing...
> > > but
> > > 1. I don't think it was an innocent mistake - they're too smart for
> that.
> > > 2. The other day in an interview they tried to blame it on a buggy
> system (that wasn't in place at the time) instead of accepting blame for a
> bad practice.
> > >
> > > It's NOT "about the attribution, more than anything else!"
> > >
> > > -Verdi
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 4/20/06, Michael Sullivan < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > right...
> > > basically every service allows submissions.
> > > some require you to register (fireant.tv ), others dont.
> > > but some also suck in content automatically.
> > > i'm just making sure hypocrisy on that front gets wiped out.
> > > you cant stick it to veoh while other services do the same thing.
> > > and there is nothing wrong with sucking in RSS feeds.
> > > it's what you do with that content within the bounds of your service
> that matters the most.
> > > mefeedia is totally legit. veoh wasnt, but apparently it seems settled
> now.
> > >
> > > mefeedia and veoh were very similar in this respect.
> > > so if you have a problem with how veoh got the content more so than the
> lack of attribution, than your basically having a problem with mefeedia and
> any other service that does this.
> > >
> > > its about the attribution, more than anything else!
> > >
> > > sull
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 4/20/06, Devlon <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 4/20/06, Michael Sullivan < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > it's still more about the attribution more than anything else....
> > > > >
> > > > > mefeedia "aquires" feeds too. i dont have a problem with that. do
> you?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I don't know if 'acquire' is the right word sull. People can submit
> feeds to Mefeedia, much like they can on Veoh afaik.
> > > >
> > > > Just had to butt in there ;)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > the attribution issue has been addressed. i am satisfied. are you?
> > > >
> > > > sull
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 4/20/06, Joshua Kinberg < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Its not just that the work is a derivative, or that its a full clip
> > > > rather than a "preview" -- the bigger issue for me is that Veoh used
> > > > vloggers and their content to make it seem as though they had a
> > > > growing and vibrant community, people who've signed up, agreed to
> > > > terms of service, and were participants in the Veoh community. This
> > > > was not true. They took people's content and made bogus profiles for
> > > > them. They forced "users" into an opt out situation when they had
> > > > never in fact opted in. This is dishonest.
> > > >
> > > > -josh
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 4/20/06, Markus Sandy < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> > > > > exactly!!!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael Verdi wrote:
> > > > > For many videobloggers the previews were long enough to be the
> complete
> > > > > work.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Markus Sandy
> > > >
> > > > http://apperceptions.org
> > > > http://spinflow.org
> > >
> >
>
>
>
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