I'm not sure how many times I can say this but I am not defending the 
uploading of copyrighted works....The way the current law reads, the 
DMCA (and yes the law sucks but for right now it's still the law) the 
way the law reads is if they take down the material once they are 
notified they are following the law.

And as I stated a minute ago in another thread of know of no company 
or software that can completly stop copyrighted material from being 
uploaded.  Do it on the front end?  How big a staff would you need 
for that?  You couldn't do it. That is why the law reads the way it 
does.  It provides somewhat of a safe harbor to allow you to operate 
legitimatiley.

You mentioned someone, somehow, someway petiotined and had your video 
taken down.  If you own it, it shouldn't have happened but to use 
that and say that they can therefore find all pirated content, I 
don't see the connection.  They received a notice and took down the 
clip per the DMCA, and by law they have to, they can't ask questions, 
they have to do it as soon as they receive a take down notice.  It's 
the way the law reads (again part of the reason the law sucks because 
legit clips get taken down all the time in error)

As far as the dog thing goes a more accurate portrayal would be some 
guy with a dog comes on to my property  and bites you.  Am I as the 
home owner responible or the guy who brought the dog?  I didn't know 
this guy and I didn't know this dog, how is that my fault?  
Especially if I wasn't there?

Yeah, people are uploading which brings me back to the point of there 
being no known way of stopping pirated content at this time.  

I mean let's be honest here what video site would NOT want a way to 
stop pirated content, at least those that are trying to be "legit"  

In a perfect world no, none of us would have to "search" to find 
violations of our content, tell me how it can be done, heck if you 
can do it, you will be a rich man.

And as far as them making money, hey in every TOS I know there is 
some provision for the hosting site to be able to make money off 
advertising, (I am referring to legit content or content you own)  
And that is why you partner with studios so you can "legaly" show 
their clips and make money.

And if you or anyone didn't make a dime on the sale of YT, what can I 
say, you knew the TOS when you uploaded your content, make a better 
system, make a better way.


As far as my last thing, I am talking about how media is trying to 
get us as consumers used to the idea of paying for everything, 
nothing you have would be yours, You buy a DVD, it's not yours, you 
can't put it on a portable device, you can't back it up.  You want to 
be able to do those things?  You have to pay again and again...Mark 
my words, someday "free" TV will no longer exsist, TV over the air 
will no longer exsist, you will have to pay....it's only a matter of 
time if we let them.

Heath
http://batmangeek7.blogspot.com

And I am not saying pirated content is ok.....I'm not, a billion 
dollars just seems a bit overinflated to me....

--- In [email protected], "Bill Cammack" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], sull <sulleleven@> wrote:
> >
> > First of all, remember the name.. YOUTUBE.  remember the 
tagline...
> > BROADCAST YOURSELF.
> > Thats what their focus was supposed to be on.  The User Generated
> Content.
> 
> 
> Absolutely.
> 
> > But they realized, or maybe knew all along, that a more lucrative
> goal would
> > be to become TV for the net.
> > And as the inevitable happened... pirated shows being uploaded, 
they
> were
> > fine with it and the loads of traffic it brought them.
> 
> That's my point.  That's not YouTube.  That's ThemTube or TheirTube 
or
> OwnedBySomeoneElseTube.  It seems that YouTube got 'lucky' and came 
up
> with a TOS that would force major corporations to sue kids on
> skateboards that have no earning potential but the very least 
internet
> literacy to be able to copy a video from one location and repost it 
in
> another location.  It's a sweet deal.  It's not YouTube's fault that
> the pirated videos are on the site.  The only people liable for the
> videos being there are broke.... penniless.  Even if Viacom wanted 
to
> sue, they had to issue Cease & Desist orders (I believe) which would
> allow the offender time to remove the material or face the 
consequences.
> 
> I had an interesting situation happen to me.  A dance group 
performed
> at a festival.  The dance group was given two feeds from two 
different
> cameras of their performance.  Those tapes and others were given to 
me
> and I edited them together and added highlight video from other
> performances that the group did.  It was CLEARLY my own work, not 
only
> because nobody edited the raw footage in the same way I did, but
> because I added so many other performance clips.  The video was on 
YT
> for months, then, all of a sudden, I get this message that my video
> was removed.  Nobody asked me where I got the footage.  Nobody asked
> me if I had permission to use anything.  I got the message, and 
when I
> checked, the video was no longer playable.
> 
> If some idiot who knows nothing about the genesis of a project or
> about who gave tapes to whom, or who had permission to do what with
> footage of their own dance group's performance can petition YouTube 
to
> take my video down, and it disappears with ZERO INVESTIGATION OF THE
> FACTS, then YouTube could clearly have found ALLLLL the music videos
> and everything else owned by Viacom and not only removed those 
videos
> but deleted the offending members' accounts.  There's no reason why
> this shouldn't have been done when they initially requested it, so I
> agree with you that they were waiting it out to get more hits and 
more
> advertisement in and now they may just have to pay for that.
> 
> > It might not be the case now but at one point these pirated shows 
were
> > regularly featured on their front page.
> > 
> > So.... if they really want to avoid the problem, they would need 
to do
> > things like curating/moderating (could be crowdsourced), banning 
users,
> > limiting upload sizes and relying more on webcam recordings 
etc... 
> But they
> > dont want to only be the longtail king.  They want that juicy 
torso
> content
> > be they want that MSM head too.  Directors?  MSM deals?
> > 
> > Fact is, they got lucky but they also took advantage of the sudden
> boom of
> > this online video revolution and enjoyed the ride to being the top
> > trafficked video site.
> > 
> > This has nothing to do with the open media revolution.  This is 
the open
> > pirate video revolution.  And it doesnt last forever.
> > 
> > 
> > On 13 Mar 2007 13:16:20 -0700, Heath <heathparks@> wrote:
> > >
> > >   That's not entirely true, YT itself is not uploading the 
clips, the
> > > users are. 
> 
> I see... So if I have a dog and I let that dog bite you, it's not my
> fault?
> 
> This is ENTIRELY YouTube's fault.  You don't aggregate rss feeds to
> YouTube... You upload video to THEIR servers.  Not only that, but 
once
> you upload it, you're not suposed to be able to get it back out.  
The
> way the system's built, you're _supposed_ to have to go back to
> YouTube every time you want to see that clip.
> 
> It's ENTIRELY the owner's fault if the dog gets off the leash... out
> of the house... out of the yard... down the street and bites you. 
> Entirely.  Especially when it happened before, and the owner was
> warned to change the situation and make sure the dog didn't get out 
again.
> 
> > > Now I understand it's a fine line and I am not defending
> > > the practice of copyrighted clips on YT. But they do remove 
clips once
> > > they have been notified, that is a fact. 
> 
> That's part of Viacom's beef.  WHY should Viacom have to go to the
> expense of finding every single Shabba Ranks video and clips from 
The
> Real World or whatever the offending material is and give YouTube a
> list of the videos it wants removed?  Meanwhile, YouTube still gets
> more hits and does more advertising and as you mention right now, 
more
> people upload MORE Viacom videos while we chat about it.
> 
> > > Now does it stop people from
> > > uploading clips? Of course not. That is why they (big media) is
> > > fighting so hard for DRM, which is another story for another 
day. YT
> > > may have it's fault but I have to say that they have been 
extremely
> > > proactive in trying to secure content and partner with studios.
> > >
> > > My guess is that they money Viacom wanted up front was so
> outragous the
> > > Google balked and now they are suing them. That is why I said 
it will
> > > only get worse. the sums that they are asking for effectly 
guarentees
> > > that companies like YT can not make a profit from advertising, 
because
> > > what they would have to charge in turn for said advertising no 
one
> > > could afford.
> 
> 
> ummmmm... They're not SUPPOSED to make money off of advertising when
> they don't own the content and neither does the skateboarding kid 
that
> uploaded it.  They're not SUPPOSED to be able to prosper by pirating
> stuff, even from large corporations that already got paid to make 
the
> content by their advertisers when they first put it on television. 
> That's why people have to _pay_ for syndication.  If Seinfeld comes 
on
> for the 50th time, there are STILL going to be people watching it, 
and
> stations are STILL going to be able to sell ad space.  That's why
> people have to pay to buy the box set of a season of a show or pay 
to
> rent that box set.  The work still has value after it's been shown 
the
> first time.  YouTube isn't supposed to be able to advertise or get
> people to come to their site to watch gags from "I Love Lucy", and 
the
> poster isn't supposed to gain hits and subscriptions from posting "I
> Love Lucy" clips in the first place.
> 
> > > The whole attitude of the RIAA and these media companies right 
now
> > > is, "OK, we realize that people are going to pirate our stuff 
so to
> > > make up for it, you need to give us X amount of dollars for the
> > > privlage of showing our stuff AND Y sum to make up for those 
nasty
> > > pirates". They are forceing these start ups to assume the risk, 
for
> > > their own failing.....it's silly.....but it will happen. And 
that will
> > > be bad for all of us.
> 
> 
> They are forcing startups to assume RESPONSIBILITY, not risk.  
There's
> no risk in hosting video content created by the people posting it 
and
> then advertising on that.  YouTube is cheating, and they _have_been_
> cheating, and now they might have to pay for that.  They weren't
> worried about it when none of their content creators or pirates got 
a
> dime from their buyout, did they?
> 
> The rules have to be defined, or else startups will adopt the same
> cheating practices.
> 
> > > Look at how much you spend each month on re-occuring bills 
right now,
> > > that are not directly related to your living expenses...
> > >
> > > phone bill, cell bill, cable bill, a fee for this, a fee for
> > > that....think about it.....
> 
> 
> Can you elaborate on the connection between your idea here and the
> rest of the conversation?
> 
> --
> Bill C.
> http://TheLab.blip.tv
> 
> > > Heath
> > > http://batmangeek7.blogspot.com
> > >
> > > --- In [email protected]
> <videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > "Bill Cammack" <BillCammack@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > That's absolutely right. There's no reason that YouTube 
should have
> > > > been able to get away with pirating everything under the sun 
and
> > > > essentially ignoring requests of the original content 
creators to
> > > > remove their materials from their site. It's the exact same
> >argument
> > > > that's been brought up here over and over about sites being 
able to
> > > > aggregate our content sans repercussion.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Sull
> > http://vlogdir.com (a project)
> > http://SpreadTheMedia.org (my blog)
> > http://interdigitate.com (otherly)
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>


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