Sorry for the messed up formatting. I hit the wrong button On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Jessica Rosner <[email protected]>wrote:
> Terry I was intentional in my comparison of certain library groups but > certainly not to all librarians. I have already seen enough statements > from Pat to know > she believes "fair use" can be used to justify copying and streaming > whole films without any permission of the rights holder. I have been > very outspoken about the practices of many rights holders/distributors > especially in educational market who claim that in essence libraries > need some extra special right ( like PPR) > to buy or use films which are otherwise available at a lower cost to > other purchasers. Feel free to read my many posts on the matter. I > have also infamously gotten in shouting match with a major figure in > the library copyright issue who told me among other things that it was > the fault of rights holders if their film was not available in the > format an academic wanted and they were there therefor free to make > and use copies from any source ( TV, a friend etc). I was once banned > from a session at ALA dealing with these rights that had up until that > point been listed as an open session.In a session the year before on > similiar issues that same major figure in the academic copyright > issues told a librarian who wanted to know how to approach rare > materials in her collection to NEVER contact the rights holder. Since > this took place at ALA I think I have a right to be very cynical > about what happens behind the closed doors of library groups. I have > watched as under pressure from professors who want what they want how > and when they want it copyright be damned and from administrations > that want to save money, more and more libraries are engaging in > illegal dubbing and streaming. I ran into a filmmaker who had once > sold a 16mm copy of her film to a major academic university and was > told by a friend she had seen it recently streamed on the campus > system. This was a film that to the best of my knowledge was not even > ever released on video. > > I could be wrong but I am pretty sure Dennis opposed the extension as > did many of us, but the recent decision on GATT so attacked by the EFF > and academics > was in no way an attack on copyright or fair use. It was righting a > terrible wrong that had been done to foreign rights holders for > decades. It was also a law that has been in place for well over a > decade yet it was treated as if it would somehow tear down the entire > concept of public domain materials when it actually has made so many > more films available in a far better quality. > > I think what really angers me is that small rights holders and > filmmakers are being crushed by the theft of the material and they > always believed libraries would be their friends and find out that > some of them are part of the theft and it will only increase. I > believe 99% of the librarians on this list do their best to abide by > copyright but many do in fact work for institutions that do not. I do > think rights holders. filmmakers and libraries need to work closer > together but tell me how > developing a "fair practices " policy with ZERO input from rights > holders especially those specializing the educational market is going > to help that. > > > > On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 1:35 PM, Simpkins, Terry W. > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > Long time reader, and though I haven't posted much before, I can't let > some of these comments pass unremarked. > > > > I trust the irony of Ms. Rosner complaining about the "demonization" of > rights holders while lumping "internet pirates" and "library groups" in the > same sentence was intentional, or, as Mr. Doros does, by stating that the > ARL group is out to "steal" copyrighted content. No demonization going on > there, no sir! At my institution - and I suspect at many of yours - we pay > thousands of dollars each year to the Copyright Clearance Center for their > annual license. We routinely purchase PPR for films we show to the public > on campus and for additional coverage when necessary to cover ILL, reserve > material, etc. On the other hand, we also deal regularly with rights > holders claiming, for example, that we need to purchase PPR when our use is > clearly allowed in the face-to-face teaching exemption, so perhaps a bit of > skepticism on the part of libraries towards rights-holders' motives is > warranted. > > > > I also have to admire Mr. Doros' glossing over of the matter of > extending copyright protection by 20 years by comparing it to the age of > his scar tissue. Heck, what's another 20-some years? By this "reasoning," > why not compare the extension to the age of California's bristlecone pine > (ca. 4,500 years) to illustrate what a mere drop in the geological bucket > 90+ years is? So what if the largest moneyed interests (e.g. Disney) can > drive public policy regarding fair use and public domain? No problem, stop > yer whining! So what if contract law is gradually trumping the fair uses > carved out for educators, critics, journalists, etc. in the copyright law? > Got a problem with that? Then don't sign (or click through) the contract! > > > > It's these sorts of statements that make me think perhaps the ARL group > referenced in the Chronicle article has exactly the right approach: > libraries and librarians should figure out fair and equitable best-practice > scenarios on our own, and then defend it as necessary in court. Even if a > library loses, the remedies are unlikely to be terribly burdensome so long > as the library acted in good faith, did their homework/research, and > attempts to conform to the spirit of the law. Fortunately for us, > libraries are sympathetic defendants, folks. > > > > Terry Simpkins > > Director, Research and Collection Services > > Library & Information Services > > Middlebury College, Middlebury, VT 05753 > > (802) 443-5045 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Jessica Rosner > > Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 12:26 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Videolib] FW: Chronicle of Higher Ed blog post about a > Fair-Use guide that "hopes to solve Librarians' VHS-Cassette Problem" > > > > Thanks Dennis I am tired out by this. Everyone from internet pirates > > to major library organizations want to demonize "rights holders" as > > greedy and unworthy of having their rights protected because > > everything should be available at no cost ( pirates) or little cost ( > > library groups). > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Dennis Doros <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Please forgive me, Jessica, for ranting first. And Chris, this isn't a > >> judgement on you since you're just reporting the news. And definitely > not > >> about this listserv that allows various points of view. (Thanks, Gary!) > And > >> even the article that states the problems I'm about to emphasize. BUT!!! > >> > >> I especially like that the fair use agreements are being done in > agreement > >> only with other librarians. They clearly state that rights-holders are > not > >> included in these discussion, because, heaven forbid, there might be > another > >> point of view. I'm sorry, I love Pat and what she does, but this is > clearly > >> stating that since everybody in this room agrees, it must be > permissible. > >> I'm really getting tired of the world saying it's okay to steal > copyrighted > >> material, because, well, we think the copyright laws are too > restrictive. > >> The government tells me that AK-47s are illegal to purchase (except in > >> Nevada), but why shouldn't I own one since all my NRA friends at the > bar say > >> that I can. > >> > >> Has any academic (anyone?) actually done a study to prove that copyright > >> laws are more restrictive than before? Outside of extending the > copyright > >> law by twenty years (and hell, I have scar tissue -- quite a few > actually -- > >> that's older than that) and allowing foreign copyright holders the > right to > >> their own copyrights, what exactly has become more restrictive??? > >> > >> I see a lot more films with borrowed and fair use material especially on > >> television. I see a lot more access to films for free -- legal and > >> otherwise. Almost everything can be seen on YouTube. I see a lot more > films > >> (on DVD) available to the classroom for $9.95 to $29.95 (sorry, Canada) > >> rather than $500 to $2000. > >> > >> And I'll say the unthinkable -- no wonder why the studios are upset with > >> librarians and educators. This is just another case of the latter > espousing > >> views that are completely subjective, completely one-sided, and > completely > >> antagonistic to a common solution. Maybe studios shouldn't be blamed for > >> this DVD and BluRay crap they're hoisting on you guys, as wrong as it > may > >> be. > >> > >> And I remind you, I love libraries. I go to two or three different ones > >> weekly. You can imagine what those guys in studios who don't read books > (and > >> there's quite a few) must feel when they see these articles. > >> > >> Dennis > >> Milestone > >> > >> On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Chris McNevins < > [email protected]> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Forwarded by a colleague.... > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > http://chronicle.com/blogs/wiredcampus/fair-use-guide-hopes-to-solve-librarians-vhs-cassette-problem > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ________________________________________ > >>> > >>> Chris McNevins | ACQUISITIONS COORDINATOR > >>> > >>> UNIVERSITY OF CONNECTICUT | HOMER BABBIDGE LIBRARY > >>> > >>> 369 Fairfield Way Unit 2005AM | Storrs, CT 06269-2005 USA > >>> > >>> PH: 860-486-3842 | FX: 860-486-6493 | EMAIL: [email protected] > >>> > >>> ________________________________________ > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > >>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > >>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in > >>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will > serve as > >>> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of > >>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video > >>> producers and distributors. > >>> > >> > >> > >> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > issues > >> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > control, > >> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in > libraries and > >> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an > effective > >> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication > >> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and > >> distributors. > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Jessica Rosner > > Media Consultant > > 224-545-3897 (cell) > > 212-627-1785 (land line) > > [email protected] > > > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as > an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video > producers and distributors. > > > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as > an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video > producers and distributors. > > > > -- > Jessica Rosner > Media Consultant > 224-545-3897 (cell) > 212-627-1785 (land line) > [email protected] > -- Jessica Rosner Media Consultant 224-545-3897 (cell) 212-627-1785 (land line) [email protected]
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
