I assume you mean companies or filmmakers who claim you need "PPR" for classroom use. You have NO idea how hard I sometimes have to explain to filmmakers that once a film is for sale in the retail market or through third parties, they have NO control over the otherwise legal uses. My current three filmmakers all understand so none will sell copies to individuals. Basically PPR on really educational material is a concept that dates back to early days of video when they really never considered individual or retail sales. PPR rights were basically a throw in for expensive non fiction films and would very rarely be used. Also I know this is going to get me in a lot of trouble with colleagues but I find the standard restriction on PPR rights to 50 people silly and unenforceable. Either you are selling a film with rights to exhibit or not. I get the restrictions that it is for on campus shows, no admission and not advertised off campus but not the limitation on the number of folks who can view it.
Unlike PPR rights I think streaming rights are highly desirable to institutions and should make it easier to justify high costs. On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 6:57 PM, Randal Baier <rba...@emich.edu> wrote: > Yes, this has happened with us on various occasions. It takes a lot of > effort to get some of these folks turned around no their ideas of PPR. > > Randal Baier > > > On Aug 21, 2013, at 22:01, Michael Phillips <mphil...@library.tamu.edu> > wrote: > > Hello Jessica,**** > > ** ** > > PPR is becoming a larger issue with us, as we are encountering more > vendors who are using their own definition of PPR. We have come across > vendor websites that essentially state that PPR is needed for educational > screenings and if their videos are purchased without PPR, those videos may > be used only for private home use.**** > > ** ** > > Has anyone else come across this problem?**** > > ** ** > > Michael S. Phillips**** > > Library Associate I**** > > Monographic Acquisitions Division**** > > Texas A&M University**** > > acqmo...@library.tamu.edu**** > > **** > > 5000 TAMU | College Station, TX 77843-5000**** > > **** > > Tel. 979.845.1343 ext. 151 | Fax. 979.845.5310**** > > **** > > http://library.tamu.edu**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [ > mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>] > *On Behalf Of *Jessica Rosner > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 21, 2013 2:15 PM > *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu > *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] The Good News about Library Fair Use maybe not > so good!!!**** > > ** ** > > Nahum (wearing my other hat)**** > > PPR is rarely an issue with libraries. THEY DO NOT NEED IT FOR CLASSROOM > use as long as it is used in the class itself or shown in a classroom > during the semester ( does anyone do those extra shows anymore). In the US > and legal copy may be used in the classroom under the "face to face" > teaching exemption. Do NOT sell on Amazon if you don't want problems. I > worked on films that were never listed for individual sale but we got > special requests for them via email. After vetting the request and asking > the individual to confirm it was not for classroom or public use we usually > but not always agreed to sell them a copy for $30.**** > > PPR has nothing to do with classroom use but for public showings outside > of classes which honesty are not that common for most educational films and > that would be a clear violation.**** > > We have actually been discussing streaming which might make your head > explode if someone did with one of your films,**** > > Honestly the only way to control this is to NOT sell to individuals and > only sell directly from your site.**** > > ** ** > > On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 3:05 PM, nahum laufer <lauf...@netvision.net.il> > wrote:**** > > > Hi all > The discussion on copyright and fair use never ends, why don't you all just > buy the films with PPR in first place than there will be no discussion at > all, no cases no judges & lawyers, just simply buy the rights that is what > Anthony at UCLA does. If you buy with PPR then classroom use is covered > but > also just a Friday evening film club could screen the film, as a > distributer > of the film "One Day After Peace" by producers order is distributed only > as > PPR. > Other films the difference between University library use to PPR is $50 > ($200-$250) > I'm not keen on selling to individuals for personal home use, but sometimes > people are keen on a film they heard about or have a personal tie to the > story so I provide the film > The following exchange of mails with a professor emeritus can explain the > problem of selling a private copy (I have rubbed out the identity of the > Prof) > -------------------------------------------------------------- > From: nahum laufer [mailto:lauf...@netvision.net.il] > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 4:59 PM > Dear ............. > Thanks for asking the ......University library to order the film, and your > advice. > Yet putting the film on sale at retail outlet is shooting mine own leg. > The following is not complaint but an explanation! According to rules in > USA > 1) Any professor or teacher can buy it for $30 and then screen it in > classroom in "Face to Face" situation. > 2) According to the rules of "First Sale" anybody can resale a legally > purchased copy, even to university library! > 3) A library can buy a DVD even if it is stated that the copy is only > for home use, I already had 2 cases that DVDs of "the Darien Dilemma" were > sold by Amazon to university libraries both were sold by people that > received a "Preview", one of the libraries (a very prestigious University) > paid us again when they understood how the copy landed at Amazon. I let go > the second one for it was a copy from a distributer that received a > preview. > As many librarians know that there are films that will not be put on the > "home video" market as "One day."they pay the fee asked for institutions > with PPR (Public Performance Rights). For One Day After Peace it is $300 > +$6 > =$306 > I do sell to private people for $50 + $6 (shipping)=$56 after I get a > promise that it is for private home use. > As I'm sure I can trust you please give me a sure Post address I'll send > you > a DVD of "One Day.." And an invoice . > Our Message is Peace, Salaam, Shalom > Cheers > > Nahum Laufer > http://onedayafterpeace.com/index.php > http://docsforeducation.com/ > Sales > Docs for Education > Erez Laufer Films > Holland st 10 > Afulla 18371 > Israel > > > ---------------------------------------- > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 12:29 AM > To: nahum laufer > Subject: Re: One Day After Peace > > I will strongly recommend this purchase to the library. I hope that the > library will place an order, but whether it will do so is beyond my > control. > > I *do* strongly urge you to sell DVDs to the public, for example via the > National Center for Jewish Film (http://jewishfilm.org/). > Best wishes, > .......... > ------------------------- > Dear ........... > Thanks for your interest in our film "One day After Peace". > The fee for DVD for library use & PPR (Public Performance Rights is $300 + > $6 (S&H)= $306 Let your university library give me an OK (order no) and > sure > post address I'll send the DVD and Invoice Cheers > > Nahum Laufer > http://onedayafterpeace.com/index.php > http://docsforeducation.com/ > Sales > Docs for Education > Erez Laufer Films > Holland st 10 > Afulla 18371 > Israel > > > -----Original Message----- > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 4:02 AM > To: lauf...@netvision.net.il > Subject: One Day After Peace > > Dear Nahum Laufer, > > Having seen the outstanding One Day After Peace at last year's San > Francisco > Jewish Film Festival, I've been hoping that it would be distributed > commercially in the U. S. and would eventually come out on DVD (in which > case I would be the first in line to buy it, to show to friends and loved > ones). > > I understand that currently you are distributing it to educational > institutions. I just retired as a university professor, and I'm wondering > what the price would be for a U. S. DVD for an educational institution, if > I > could arrange for our university library to buy a copy. > > Thanks for your reply, and best wishes > ............... > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------------------------------- > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: The Good News about Library Fair Use (infographic) > (Simpkins, Terry W.) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 16:59:50 +0000 > From: "Simpkins, Terry W." <tsimp...@middlebury.edu> > Subject: Re: [Videolib] The Good News about Library Fair Use > (infographic) > To: "videolib@lists.berkeley.edu" <videolib@lists.berkeley.edu> > Message-ID: > > <c5a00423efac4246a7590e06910c563d5acca...@mountainlion.middlebury.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hello everyone, > Ms. Rosner's description of the ARL position is, as usual, simplistic and > ultimately erroneous. ARL does not simply claim that you can stream an > entire film for class purposes without taking any other factors into > account. Among the other "limitations," in Best Practices parlance, the > ARL > authors cite are: > > * "the availability of materials should be coestensive with the > duration of the course or other time-limited use" > > * "only eligible students ... should have access" > > * and, perhaps most importantly, "materials should be made > available > only when, and only to the extent that, there is a clear articulable nexus > between the instructor's pedagogical purpose and the kind and amount of > content involved" [the emphasis is mine]. > These are not trivial limitations to be dismissed for the purposes of > polemics. Rather, these are absolutely crucial factors, the absence of any > one of which might lead even the ARL authors (not to mention a judge and > jury) to conclude that a particular use is in fact not fair, but > infringing. > Let me repeat this in case the rights holders on the list don't get it: in > order for ARL (and -- since the best practices guidelines are obviously NOT > part of the text of the copyright law -- only ARL, at this point, along > with > those who subscribe to their best practices arguments) to suggest that > screening an entire film would be fair use, there would have to be a clear > pedagogical purpose for screening the entire film that is not served by > screening only a portion. These cases are relatively few and far between, > in my experience with faculty. > > Ms. Rosner and others have argued before in this forum that NO use of an > ENTIRE copyrighted work should EVER be considered fair use. The ARL Best > Practices folks clearly disagree with this assertion. But they most > certainly do not argue that ANY use of an ENTIRE copyrighted work in an > educational setting is fair, and for Ms. Rosner to keep implying they do is > disingenuous. Until the courts rule clearly on these issues, the ARL > document suggests that ALL of the criteria above, along with others I > haven't listed, need to be considered before sound judgment regarding fair > use can be exercised. > > At Middlebury, we do not make fair use decisions to avoid purchasing > things, > to avoid licensing fees, to avoid seeking permission, or to avoid hard > work. > We do make fair use decisions when we have few or no options open to us, > and > we need to move forward in order to carry out the teaching, learning, and > research imperatives of the institution. For us, the ARL guidelines are > thoughtful, clear, and articulate, something I can't always say about the > arguments I hear coming from rights holders. > > Terry > > Terry Simpkins > Director, Research and Collection Services Library & Information Services > Middlebury College, Middlebury, VT 05753 > (802) 443-5045 > > From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu > [mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jessica Rosner > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 11:53 AM > To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu > Subject: Re: [Videolib] The Good News about Library Fair Use (infographic) > > "Because they are developed by practice communities themselves without > intimidation from hostile outside groups." > Translation "We did not want rights holders and actual copyright lawyers to > interfere with our views" > I believe this document is at least a year old. It does contain the single > most insane notion I have seen re streaming feature films which was the > same > one expressed at the ALA conference session I went to. > Basically they claim that you can stream any ENTIRE feature film because > using it in a class is "transformative" from it's original purpose of > "entertainment" This has ZERO basis in law or any previous copyright case > and is actually directly contradicted by many. At the ALA session when I > asked asked if this were indeed correct did it not also apply to books so > that a library could scan and upload The Great Gatsby, Catch 22 etc, the > response was "that is an interesting question" which of course was a total > dodge of this absurd theory. This "justifies" making and streaming copies > of > ANY work not created exclusively for educational use. Good luck defending > that in court. > > > On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Dennis Doros > <milefi...@gmail.com<mailto:milefi...@gmail.com>> wrote: > "Because they are developed by practice communities themselves without > intimidation from hostile outside groups." > > Wow! I didn't realize I was so tough! Next time I meet a librarian, I'll > have to ease up on my hostility. ;-) > > Best regards, > Dennis Doros > Milestone Film & Video/Milliarium Zero > PO Box 128 / Harrington Park, NJ 07640 > Phone: 201-767-3117<tel:201-767-3117> / Fax: 201-767-3035<tel:201-767-3035 > > > / Email: milefi...@gmail.com<mailto:milefi...@gmail.com> > Visit our main website! > www.milestonefilms.com<http://www.milestonefilms.com/> > Visit our new websites! > www.portraitofjason.com<http://www.portraitofjason.com>, > www.shirleyclarkefilms.com<http://www.shirleyclarkefilms.com/>, > Support "Milestone Film" on > Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Milestone-Film/22348485426> and > Twitter<https://twitter.com/#!/MilestoneFilms>! > > See the website: Association of Moving Image > Archivists<http://www.amianet.org/> and like them on > Facebook< > http://www.facebook.com/pages/Association-of-Moving-Image-Archivist > s/86854559717<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Association-of-Moving-Image-Archivists/86854559717> > > > AMIA 2013 Conference, Richmond, Virginia, November > 5-9!<http://www.amianet.org/> > > On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:46 AM, Pia Hunter > <huntr...@uic.edu<mailto:huntr...@uic.edu>> wrote: > Greetings, > > The ARL has created a great new resource to promote fair use and the Code > of > Best Practices. The full PDF is available at: > http://www.arl.org/publications-resources/2875 > > There are three versions available: a full-size PDF, an 8.5" x 11" letter > sized PDF for printing, and a PNG file for blogs and website. > Please spread the word! > -- > Pia M. Hunter > Reserve/Media and Microforms | University Library (M/C 234) University of > Illinois at Chicago > 801 South Morgan Street, Suite 1-250 LIB | Chicago, Illinois 60607 > > reserve submissions: lib-...@uic.edu<mailto:lib-...@uic.edu> | copyright > inquiries: copyri...@uic.edu<mailto:copyri...@uic.edu> > phone: 312-996-2719<tel:312-996-2719> | fax: 312.996.0901<tel:312.996.0901 > > > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues > relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, > preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries > and > related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective > working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication > between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and > distributors. > > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues > relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, > preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries > and > related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective > working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication > between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and > distributors. > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment scrubbed and removed. > HTML attachments are only available in MIME digests. > > End of videolib Digest, Vol 69, Issue 57 > **************************************** > > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as > an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video > producers and distributors.**** > > ** ** > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as > an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video > producers and distributors. > > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as > an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video > producers and distributors. > >
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
