Ah, hah! OK, it's back to the dictionaries for me -- thanks for the distinction. I like this kind of thing!! "from absurdity," I guess.
============== Randal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Doros" <[email protected]> To: "Video Library questions" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 8:57:58 PM Subject: Re: [Videolib] "just download it anyways" article Randal, reductio ad absurdum is taking a position and drawing it to an absurd conclusion. Much of Colbert's comedy is a perfect and wonderful example. I believe Ab absurdum is proving a position's truth based on an absurd reality. Best regards, Dennis Doros Milestone Film & Video PO Box 128 / Harrington Park, NJ 07640 Phone: 201-767-3117 / Fax: 201-767-3035 / Email: [email protected] Visit our main website! www.milestonefilms.com Visit our new websites! www.mspresents.com , www.portraitofjason.com , www.shirleyclarkefilms.com , To see or download our 2014 Video Catalog, click here ! Support "Milestone Film" on Facebook and Twitter ! See the website: Association of Moving Image Archivists and like them on Facebook AMIA 2014 Conference, Savannah, Georgia, October 8-11, 2014 On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 8:32 PM, Randal Baier < [email protected] > wrote: <blockquote> I think Dennis means "reductio ad absurdum," but who's counting? And for that matter, fish need no bicycles. Medici.tv, Naxos music library, classical music.com (?) ... They all have good licensed products, not cheap, but workable for "lending." Maybe the iTunes issue really boils down to sheer profit potential ... Katy Perry dressed up as Madame Butterfly makes millions, one track a a time. Mme. BFly at Glyndebourne does not. Although given the latest production of MB I might be proven wrong! ----- Reply message ----- From: "Jessica Rosner" < [email protected] > To: < [email protected] > Subject: [Videolib] "just download it anyways" article Date: Thu, Jul 31, 2014 5:41 pm I have no idea of the language but it is a very different situation. There is no contract or license when you buy a standard Hollywood DVD. It is physical item covered by standard copyright laws including "face to face" I don't belong iTunes or any downloading service for music of film but know they have specific terms that you have to agree to when you join and this would constitute a contract which can have terms that restrict what a user can do and those rules can go well beyond what is permitted by copyright law. Basically iTunes can indeed put in all kinds of restrictions which the buyer is legally obliged to follow. Not that everyone does but libraries far more than individuals could get in serious trouble if they did not. This is why I think the goal should be do negotiate with rights holders and explain libraries need for physical copies or at least something that can be lent and used under "face to face" On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Matt Ball < [email protected] > wrote: <blockquote> I'm curious about the "personal use" laguage in the license from iTunes that Mr. Smith refers to several times. Most Hollywood DVDs come with personal use licenses and libraries have been collecting and lending them for years. I wonder how the iTunes license is different. I read it rather thoroughly last year and it seemed somewhat vague in certain key areas, but my memory isn't what is ever way, and I don't have the license right here in front of me. Matt [email protected] writes: And I agree with you but one note I was definitely also attacking Mr.Smith's total disregard for copyright LAW not just his morality or ethics. He basically belongs to the " we academic institutions are above those evil copyright laws and all rights holders are greedy pigs so we should not pay them" school of thought. I particularly liked his write up of Georgia State Appeal in which he said three federal judges did not understand copyright law and were totally misinterpreting it. Evidently he knows more than they do about copyright law. On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 1:52 PM, Dennis Doros < [email protected] > wrote: Okay, here's where I almost entirely agree with Jessica. To me, this "other" Kevin (this one ain't from Jersey) Smith's article has nothing to do with copyright and library's rights, but an internet illness based on utopian expectations leading to faulty thinking. Jessica's argument, however, doesn't take into account that this guy's reasoning has a fatal flaw past the morality and ethics of it. I dislike this article intensely by Smith because like most articles of this nature, it takes a specific case and blows it up from the ab absurdo (I believe my memory of Latin is correct) to a blanket conclusion. In other words, because you can't download one item, you should be able to download all items. What's the percentage of material out there that libraries can't buy in a more stable, higher quality format, ie. CDs. It's a very common disease in the digital age to insist that everything HAS to be available. It should be and maybe it will be one day, but that will take time, legislation and energy -- as well as increased taxes to support the arts. Rather than support the illegal download of copyrighted material, the real obvious conclusion is that the ALA should work with Itunes to come up with a secondary system for libraries that's fair and equitable. That's a huge amount of business they could have. Best regards, Dennis Doros Milestone Film & Video PO Box 128 / Harrington Park, NJ 07640 Phone: 201-767-3117 / Fax: 201-767-3035 / Email: [email protected] Visit our main website! www.milestonefilms.com Visit our new websites! www.mspresents.com , www.portraitofjason.com , www.shirleyclarkefilms.com , To see or download our 2014 Video Catalog, click here ! Support "Milestone Film" on Facebook and Twitter ! See the website: Association of Moving Image Archivists and like them on Facebook AMIA 2014 Conference, Savannah, Georgia, October 8-11, 2014 On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Laura Jenemann < [email protected] > wrote: Dear videolib, A recent post from Kevin Smith (Duke’s Scholarly Communication Officer) on digital-only music, and what libraries might or might not do about it: http://blogs.library.duke.edu/scholcomm/2014/07/28/planning-for-musical-obsolescence/ Here are some comments that may resonate with media librarians: “At a recent consultation to discuss this problem, it was interesting to note that several of the lawyers in the room encouraged the librarians to just download the music anyway and ignore the licensing terms, simply treating this piece of music like any other library acquisition. Their argument was that iTunes and the LA Philharmonic really do not mean to prevent library acquisitions; they are just using a boilerplate license without full awareness of the impact of its terms. But the librarians were unwilling.” Regards, Laura Laura Jenemann Film Studies/Media Services Librarian George Mason University 703-993-7593 [email protected] VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. ___________________ Matt Ball Director, Woodruff Library Pace Academy 966 W. Paces Ferry Rd. Atlanta, GA 30327 [email protected] VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. </blockquote> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. </blockquote> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
