One final note, as if on cue there was a posting of ALA sponsored webinar on impact of recent copyright cases to be run by someone from The Electronic Frontier Foundation. EFF does many good things but they are not the not exactly a unbiased source for copyright law. To me this just continues the one sided and often inaccurate information in these type of webinars, sessions etc. ALA and other groups really need to reach out to rights holders, filmmakers and intellectual property lawyers with differing views to get an honest assessment. I find it hard to believe a library group would sponsor a session on say best streaming services and have it run by Netflix and have no one from any other service but to me this seems the same thing.
On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 9:32 AM, Threatt, Monique Louise < [email protected]> wrote: > I totally agree with you, Jessica. > For those of us who were able to attend the various ALA sessions in the > past (sponsored by VRT) with Carrie, Patricia, and their lawyer, it’s still > amazes me that we find ourselves going around and around in circles about > this very issue. Perhaps, there are no solutions to this dilemma. > > > > And, I’d like to stress that vendors have their hands tied in the types of > films, and rights that they can legally license to academic institutions. > Vendors are not the problem. > > > > If only institutions could legally partner with Amazon on Demand, Netflix, > Hulu, iTunes, and other popular sites, then what a wonderful world this > would be. J Disney, are you listening? **sighs** > > > > On the other hand, this thread makes me want to explore other national > conferences where *all *parties are represented and not just the usual > suspects. > > > > Is anyone aware if these types of topics/panel discussions are held at > independent film festivals where you are likely to engage in conversations > with independent filmmakers? > > > > Mo > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Jessica Rosner > *Sent:* Friday, August 28, 2015 7:41 AM > > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] Grassroots collaboration Was RE: Copyright > question: American Playhouse Films > > > > Dennis does a great job covering copyright issues here but I think in > order to add real balance to the discussion of copyright, fair use & > streaming issues the academic community (and here I am thinking more ALA > than NMM) needs to reach out and include lawyers who can present the view > of major rights holders. I agree with Dennis that many of them ( MPAA cough > cough) are pretty clueless but it is essential they participate in these > discussions be they webinars or sessions at ALA and NMM. I can think of one > terrific intellectual property lawyer who did participate in the one > conference that did invite major rights holders ( the one at Columbia a > few years ago). He has represented both non profits and major rights > holders and knows more about the state of copyright , fair use etc than > anyone I can think of. However his day job is at a very high end law film > so I don't know if he could attend something like NMM but you never know. > It is however crucial in my view that ALA and the academic community > outreach to large rights holders and invite them to participate in these > ongoing copyright "events" because by an large you are still getting a very > one sided opinion and it is somewhat shocking that the library community in > particular would not make an effort to get differing opinions. > > PS I am happy to pass on whatever contacts I have to folks setting up any > type of copyright on or offline session. > > > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 3:37 PM, Threatt, Monique Louise < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Yaaay! > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Dennis Doros > *Sent:* Thursday, August 27, 2015 3:35 PM > > > *To:* Video Library questions <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] Grassroots collaboration Was RE: Copyright > question: American Playhouse Films > > > > Thanks, Mo! > > > > Maureen and I slayed NMM back in Nevada. Well, not literally. I mean, > that's possibly worse than copyright infringement. At best, it's impolite. > But we had a good time presenting. :-) > > > Best regards, > Dennis Doros > Milestone Film & Video > PO Box 128 / Harrington Park, NJ 07640 > Phone: 201-767-3117 / Fax: 201-767-3035 / Email: [email protected] > > > > Visit our main website! www.milestonefilms.com > > Visit our new websites! www.mspresents.com, www.portraitofjason.com, > www.shirleyclarkefilms.com, > > To see or download our 2014 Video Catalog, click here > <https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0150/7896/files/2015MilestoneVideoCatalog.pdf?2223081985127089573> > ! > > > > Support "Milestone Film" on Facebook > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/Milestone-Film/22348485426> and Twitter > <https://twitter.com/#!/MilestoneFilms>! > > > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 1:18 PM, Threatt, Monique Louise < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Dennis, > > > > I hope the NMM Board will consider you to be its guest speaker, or at > least panel presenter at the 2016 NMM! J > > > > I also look forward to seeing your film in the near future. > > > > Best, > > Mo > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Dennis Doros > *Sent:* Thursday, August 27, 2015 11:23 AM > *To:* Video Library questions <[email protected]> > > > *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] Grassroots collaboration Was RE: Copyright > question: American Playhouse Films > > > > And I too have to send my regrets, but as those on our mailing list know, > Amy and I have produced our first feature film ever ( > http://filmbysamuelbeckett.com/) --ironically, some of it's based on fair > use -- and it's having it's world premiere on October 17th. To be honest, > my travel these days is mostly regarding the politics and laws to save > films, the fight to preserve ALL materials (outtakes and "unknown" films > along with digital-born works are being left behind), and any of my > knowledge of copyright is just an outgrowth of those efforts. Distribution > allows me to afford to do that. > > > > I do agree with Jessica that *most* of these meetings on fair use have > been unbalanced without representatives of rights holders present and > there's a lot of wringing of hands over the perceived strength of the > copyright holders. The reality is that with the internet, copyright > infringement is so vast that the rights holders have almost zero control of > their materials these days. And most studios are afraid to sue over new > technology uses because they are afraid of losing. And they're fairly > ignorant on copyright as it turns out. (I hear about their meetings and > it's not impressive.) The multitude of copyright laws across the world also > create further confusion. > > > > BUT -- I've stayed with this listserv for many years and have waged > battles, expressed sympathy and celebrated triumphs with many of you ( > *still* waiting for that Cubs miracle) because I do believe that this is > the best forum for discussing our differences. I do have a life long love > of librarians as the keepers of culture. (Though to be brutally honest, if > you truly believe you are preservationists, you would be participating in > AMIA and attend their events because the preservation world in regards to > multimedia is changing rapidly. Did you know that polyester mag tracks are > now threatened? That was last week's news at The Reel Thing.) So, if we > could discuss a 2016 NMM meeting, I'd love to come out and work with you > all on a platform where institutional budgets and rights holder interests > can be debated and a statement of best practices can be made. > > > > > Best regards, > Dennis Doros > Milestone Film & Video > PO Box 128 / Harrington Park, NJ 07640 > Phone: 201-767-3117 / Fax: 201-767-3035 / Email: [email protected] > > > > Visit our main website! www.milestonefilms.com > > Visit our new websites! www.mspresents.com, www.portraitofjason.com, > www.shirleyclarkefilms.com, > > To see or download our 2014 Video Catalog, click here > <https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0150/7896/files/2015MilestoneVideoCatalog.pdf?2223081985127089573> > ! > > > > Support "Milestone Film" on Facebook > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/Milestone-Film/22348485426> and Twitter > <https://twitter.com/#!/MilestoneFilms>! > > > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Jessica Rosner <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Alas I won't be at NMM and I doubt Dennis will be either and this brings > up what I think is the biggest problem when discussing copyright and > streaming at educational institutions. I see lots of posts here and on > colib for webinars, sessions, conferences devoted to the issue but only > once did I see one which actually included a representative of a major\ > rights holders. I am happy to be corrected as I don't follow every listing > but it seems like the same "experts" from either universities or people > from organizations often hostile to rights holders involved. Not my > favorite group but has anyone from MPAA ever been involved. or from a major > studio or company? Dennis and I poke our heads in here but without the > participation of an intellectual property lawyer it strikes me that too > much takes place in vacuum with only one view represented > > > > The other huge problem is that the issue of what constitutes "fair use" in > streaming is totally separate from tracking down the right holder. The > plain fact is that there tens of thousands of films for which you simply > can not obtain the streaming rights. There are massive numbers of film that > have no current US distribution but the all except the small number of PD > titles have rights holders. Those made outside the US may never have had US > distribution , others may have in the past but the contract has expired and > reverted back to someone outside the US. They are difficult but not > impossible to track down but frankly in the majority of cases they are not > interested in making a deal for one film for one institution. Its a bitch > but it is their right. Likewise a lot of American indie films have expired > contracts and have pretty much identical issues with the foreign films. > Even if you find the rights holder there is reasonable chance especially > with a film older than 10 years that they do not own those rights because > the were not in the original contract and require getting permission and > paying multiple parties. Fun stuff. > > On the positive side streaming is something most rights holders want to > offer so they are usually aggressively working on it but there can be all > kinds of legal, financial and technical issues that they have to clear. > > I think librarians need to make a concerted effort to fulfill a streaming > request but at the same time they also have to accept and get the > instructor to accept that not every film can be streamed and they might > have to consider options like a different title or actually having students > watch it on a DVD ( if you have a legal copy of that) > > Librarians and rights holders should absolutely be working together on > these issues. Clearly if a rights holder has to surmount costly issues to > make a film available for streaming then knowing libraries want to purchase > it will help. I think accessing feature films at least through Hulu, > Amazon, Fandor etc is honestly more practical in many cases at least for > films that played in theaters not those made or focused on the educational > market > > Bottom line educational institutions and rights holders must work together > but it needs to be broader group of rights holders and instructors need to > understand that they can't stream every film they might want. > > Jessica > > > > On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:45 PM, Sarah E. McCleskey < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Yes, I agree that a WebEx or another remote conferencing tool would be > great. Thanks for the feedback so far. I think this is something that we > can do. > > > > Sarah > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Jodie Borgerding > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 26, 2015 1:20 PM > > > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] Grassroots collaboration Was RE: Copyright > question: American Playhouse Films > > > > I can’t make it to NMM either but my university has a WebEx license so I > would be more than happy to “host” a discussion. > > > > Jodie > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > Jodie L. Borgerding, M.L.S. > > Instruction and Liaison Librarian > > Emerson Library > > Webster University > > 470 E. Lockwood > > St. Louis, MO 63119 > > (314) 246-7819 > > [email protected] > > http://libguides.webster.edu/soc > > http://libguides.webster.edu/english > > http://libguides.webster.edu/zombies > > > > “Chuck Norris doesn't read books. He stares them down until he gets the > information he wants.” > > > > *From:* [email protected] [ > mailto:[email protected] > <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Hooper, Lisa K > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 26, 2015 12:12 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] Grassroots collaboration Was RE: Copyright > question: American Playhouse Films > > > > Yes! I can’t make it to NMM this year but would *love* to be a part of > this discussion! > > -lisa H. > > > > Music & Media Librarian > > Howard-Tilton Memorial Library > > Tulane University > > 504.314.7822 > > @lkHMusLibrarian > > www.facebook.com/TulaneMusicAndMediaCenter > > http://www.library.tulane.edu/libraries/mmc > > http://bamboulanola.tumblr.com/ > > > > > > > > *From:* [email protected] [ > mailto:[email protected] > <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *scott spicer > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 26, 2015 12:07 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] Grassroots collaboration Was RE: Copyright > question: American Playhouse Films > > > > I concur, an update to the Summit "5 years on" would be a great idea. > Unfortunately, there are many like myself who are unable to attend. If we > do have this forum, my guidance would be to seek some kind of mechanism for > remote live participation if at all possible (e.g., Hangout, Skype, WebEx, > etc..) for at least part of the discussion. > > Best, > > Scott > > > -- > > Scott Spicer > Media Outreach and Learning Spaces Librarian > University of Minnesota Libraries - Twin Cities > 341 Walter Library > [email protected] 612.626.0629 > Media Services: lib.umn.edu/media > SMART Learning Commons: lib.umn.edu/smart > > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as > an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video > producers and distributors. > > > > > > -- > > Jessica Rosner > Media Consultant > 224-545-3897 (cell) > 212-627-1785 (land line) > [email protected] > > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as > an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video > producers and distributors. > > > > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as > an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video > producers and distributors. > > > > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as > an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video > producers and distributors. > > > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as > an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video > producers and distributors. > > -- Jessica Rosner Media Consultant 224-545-3897 (cell) 212-627-1785 (land line) [email protected]
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
