Dear Rob, Please do write more when you get the chance ( and some sleep ). As I said before, this is fascinating. Now I'm starting to wonder who wrote the first composition for guitar which actually required 6 courses ( as opposed to 5 ). And who that composer encountered playing a 6 course guitar ( as opposed to 5 ) who inspired him to write for 6 courses .
Rest well! Garry > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob MacKillop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 2:26 PM > To: email@example.com > Subject: RE: Antwort: RE: Antwort: Re: Demise of baroque guitar > > Gary, > > I'm falling asleep with tiredness as I write, so I'll write more on this > later. I can't recall all the relevant facts or hypotheses just now. But > basically both Sor and Aguado had teachers who played 6c guitars, and both > players mention their preference for six single strings - but these > preferences are mentioned quite late, in their methods (I think). This > deserves more attention than I can give it tonight ... and it is only > 7.20pm! Too early for bed, too late for sense! > > Rob > > -----Original Message----- > From: Garry Bryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 19 January 2005 13:20 > To: firstname.lastname@example.org > Subject: RE: Antwort: RE: Antwort: Re: Demise of baroque guitar > > Dear Thomas and Rob, > > Are you saying he was playing 5 double courses or 6? > This is fascinating. > > Cheers! > > Garry > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 5:34 AM > > To: email@example.com > > Subject: Antwort: RE: Antwort: Re: Demise of baroque guitar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes, and he later used the same guitar simple single strung. > > > > best wishes, > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > > "Rob MacKillop" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> am 19.01.2005 09:59:01 > > > > An: <firstname.lastname@example.org> > > Kopie: > > > > Thema: RE: Antwort: Re: Demise of baroque guitar > > > > Thomas, did you mean to say that Sor played a DOUBLE-strung guitar when he > > was young? It was almost certain that he did, as did Aguado. > > > > Rob MacKillop > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: 19 January 2005 08:13 > > To: email@example.com > > Subject: Antwort: Re: Demise of baroque guitar > > > > Dear Eugene, > > > > thanks for this posting. > > Actually even the younger Sor still played a baroque guitar which was > > single strung . Even Torres still has built guitars in the earlier > > tradition. The Pages-Guitar in Berlin is built in 1812. A good overview > for > > the early romantic guitar gives Len Verrett on > > http://www.earlyromanticguitar.com/ > > > > best wishes > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Eugene C. Braig IV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> am 18.01.2005 16:57:43 > > > > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Cameron), firstname.lastname@example.org > > Kopie: > > > > Thema: Re: Demise of baroque guitar > > > > I'm happy to receive correction/clarification on the following from proper > > organologists. > > > > At 09:01 AM 1/18/2005, David Cameron wrote: > > >What is the latest date for an instrument distinctly recognizable as a > > >baroque guitar? > > > > > > I don't know that the "baroque guitar" should be considered a proper > > instrument type given that 5-course guitars, very much like those popular > > in the baroque era, persisted comfortably into the classical. A better > > term may be "5-course guitar." They persisted up to the very late 18th > c., > > > > especially in France. > > > > > > > > >Did the baroque guitar, like the lute, reach a point where it was no > > longer > > >useful, and simply die out? > > > > > > Not really. In much of Europe, as the classical aesthetic took sway with > a > > > > fondness for symmetry of contrasting, clear melodies and simple homophonic > > accompaniment, double strung instruments didn't really have an appropriate > > voice. Guitarists began leaving their 5-course guitars single strung > > (e.g., see Lhoyer's early works, especially his concerto, op. 16, > > 1802). The range was quickly expanded by adding a 6th string at E, > > probably first in Italy (see <http://www3.uakron.edu/gfaa/stalking.html> > > and <http://www.earlyromanticguitar.com/>). Various descendants of this > > non-Spanish European style of "classical" guitar persisted until Segovia's > > massive popularity washed them away. These guitars largely were braced > > with only a few transverse bars. > > > > In America, C.F. Martin, originally an employee of Staufer's shop in > > Vienna, opened his own 1833 shop building essentially German guitars. In > > the 1840s, he began integrating some Spanish design elements, and around > > 1850 he introduced the now famous "X" bracing pattern. Early Martins > could > > > > be braced with transverse bars, a fan pattern of 3-6 braces, or an X > > pattern. While many US makers continued to brace with transverse bars, > > there was a distinct profile and style of American "classical" guitar that > > persisted up to the depression. The abundant surviving examples are often > > trivialized today as "parlor guitars." > > > > In Spain, where the instrument primarily served song accompaniment, a 6th > > course at E was added to the double strung instrument. It then went to > six > > > > single strings. These instruments largely were fan braced. > > > > > > > > >Are the singly strung guitars of the nineteenth century, and the modern > > >classical guitars, direct developements of the baroque guitar...? > > > > > > Of sorts. The modern form directly evolved of 6-course guitars which were > > derived from the 5-course guitars of the baroque. The form was > > standardized in Spain, largely in the Torres shop of the mid-late 19th c. > > (although Panormo's London shop that built guitars in the "Spanish style" > > and a few others did build some large, essentially modern classical > guitars > > > > a bit earlier in the mid 19th c.). Even the famous Herman Hauser I in > > Munich built many large, early guitars that were descended from classic > > Germanic instruments like those of Staufer/Stauffer or Scherzer earlier in > > his career. Segovia's popularity largely washed away the memory of the > > older Germanic, Italianate, French, and American classical guitars leaving > > the Spanish paradigm with which we are all familiar. These modern > > Spanish-style instruments were still fan braced, symmetrically until > > Ramirez introduced an asymmetric pattern in the 1960s. > > > > Best, > > Eugene > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY : This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and > > may be privileged. If you are not a named recipient, please notify the > > sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use > > it for any purpose or store or copy the information in any medium. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY : This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and > > may be privileged. If you are not a named recipient, please notify the > > sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use > > it for any purpose or store or copy the information in any medium. > > > > > > > > > >