Peter Holman was criticised for doing this in some of reviews - who referred to
"silly strummers".
Although the guitar was popular - this was probably amongst amateurs as a solo
instrument or as an accompaniment to the voice.
It would be interesting to know what evidence Peter has for using the guitar in
this way.
Monica
----- Original Message -----
From: Martyn Hodgson
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 'Monica Hall' ; 'Vihuelalist'
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: tablature, alfabeto and BC
Two dances in fact.
I know of no specific named players but considering the popularity of the
instrument in London at the time there'd probably quite a choice. Peter Holman
thinks the guitar was used throughout the opera in almost all the pieces
including the Lament where he asked me to strum (gently of course) the opening
harmonies throughout whilst the strings played the more dissonant version: it
certainly works and, I think, heightens the effect. Not sure if Purcell wld
have expected it tho. Having said this Peter is certainly one of the leading
scholars and researchers of English music of the late 17th/early 18thC.
Martyn
PS I mostly strummed..............
Who played the guitar dance in Purcell's Dido and Aeneas?
Rob
www.rmguitar.info
-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 17 January 2008 17:04
To: Vihuelalist
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: tablature, alfabeto and BC
----- Original Message -----
From: Monica Hall
To: Martyn Hodgson
Cc: vihuelalist [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: tablature, alfabeto and BC
Well - the short answer is no!
The guitar does feature in the Florentine Intermedii. It is just possible
that it was used in Landi's opera Sant Alessio as this includes a duet for
the two humourous characters which is also included in one of Landi's song
books with alfabeto.
It does make an appearance in Lully's La Galanterie du temps - played by
Corbetta - but that is French. And of course in the music for Calisto
again with Corbetta.
If it was used in Italian opera it would probably have been in very specific
contexts - humorous, gipsies and the like I guess.
Not very helpful that...
Monica
----- Original Message -----
From: Martyn Hodgson
To: Monica Hall ; Lex
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: tablature, alfabeto and BC
Monica,
Related to this: are you aware if any lists of players at the 17thC/early
18thC Italian Opera Houses listing theorbos, harpsichords players also
showing guitarists.?
Martyn
Monica Hall wrote:
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: tablature, alfabeto and BC
these are my thoughts ...
>> Lex Eisenhardt wrote:
>>
>> There is an interesting parallel to the rapid decline of alfabeto
song
>> after
>> 1630. At about the same time the first instructions appeared for the
use
>> of the guitar in BC (Foscarini, Corbetta).
>> Should we suppose that the practice of an all-battuto (alfabeto)
>> accompaniment style has survived?
>> There are (almost) no books with alfabeto from any other country
>> than Italy, and the Italian alfabeto manuals from the second half of
the
>> 17th century are poor, rehashed versions of earlier editions, almost
>> without
>> exception. They were only printed in Rome and Venice, probably in
small
>> numbers, serving a local demand. Alfabeto (in print) clearly was past
its
>> prime.
>
The short answer to that is that what has survived in print is only a
tip
of the iceberg. And what is printed commercially reflects the economic
situation at the time and place. Italy was apparently in economic
decline
in the second half of the 17th century. Also it may have been that the
kind
of songs which are included in these books had gone out of fashion
rather
than the manner of accompanying them. Surely this same is true of the
songs
which don't have alfabeto?
And if you have been reading Cory Gavito's dissertation I wouldn't read
too
much into what he says as it is based on a very small statistical
sample.
The exercises in the books by Corbetta et al include examples showing
which
alfabeto chords match the the notes of the bass part e.g. The Regola per
sonar sopra la parte on p.70 on Corbetta's are surely intended to help
the
player devise a strummed accompaniment. It is also self-evident that the
accompaniments to the vocal pieces in Corbetta's Guitarre royale of 1671
are
intended to be mostly strummed. Why else should he put the note values
on
the stave rather than above it?
The same is true of Matteis - the first lesson which Schollars ought to
learn by heart - simply the standard chords and some of his
accompaniments
and exercises are mostly strummed. that on p.23 for example.
>> However, some players may have been able to realize an accompaniment,
>> departing from the bass (and losing considerably in volume, while
>> plucking
>> part of the harmonies).
Of course but that doesn't mean that they didn't vary the kind of
accompaniment which they provided.
>>
>> Matteis (1680): 'The guitar was never so much in use & credit as it
is at
>> this day, & finding it improved to so great a perfection, it is my
>> present
>> design to make it company for other Instruments. Every body knows it
to
>> be
>> an imperfect Instrument & yet finding upon experience how agreeable a
>> part
>> it bears in a consort I have composed severall Pieces both for ye
>> practice
>> &
>> information of those that would make use of it with ye Harpsichord,
Lute,
>> Theorbo or Bass-Viol.'
>
Note that he suggests that it should be used with the bass viol amongst
> other things.............
>>
>> Campion (1716): '.
Campion is writing a whole generation after Corbetta...
one is not prejudiced against the guitar without reason.
>> I
>> acknowledge, along with everyone, that it is not as strong of harmony
as
>> the
>> harpsichord or the theorbo. However, I believe that it is sufficient
to
>> accompany one voice.'
>
That is the point - the guitar is more suitable for accompanying the
voice
or in small groups. I would agree with Martin today that the guitar is
often added to the continuo groups inappropriately.
> I have even heard it included in Handel!
>>
>> They both did not include all-battuto accompaniments in their
>> instructions, and the BC manuals from this time (Sanz, Grenerin, de
>> Murcia)
>> take the bass as the main reference.
>
Murcia wasn't printed until 1714. The point is that they didn't need to
include instructions on how to strum an accompaniment. Spaniards didn't
need this kind of instruction. Their objective was something different.
There are large numbers of manuscripts with Castilian or Catalan cifras.
Note also that the each of the tonos in the Cancionero de Marin is
preceded
by a note indicating the passacalles to be (presumably) strummed between
the
verses. If you have only seen the modern edition you may not be aware of
that.
>
> It seems that using the guitar for
>> plain battuto had become quite much a matter of genre, kept for old
>> exotic
>> dances (ruggieros, ciacconas etc.) and a very specific (mainly
archaic)
>> song
>> repertoire.
>
> I wonder if it did come to mind at all to add the strumming of
>> a
>> guitar to ensemble performance. Just like this was not usual in
Church
>> music
>> (well, in Spain and South America of course they did...). There is a
>> tantalizing lack of notated examples, eye-witness reports and
iconography
>> from the second half of the century, with regard to the role of the
>> guitar
>> in ensemble.
>>
>> Today it is often supposed that the guitar was added to
>> ensembles, for rhythm and colour, with reference to unwritten
traditions.
>> What solid historical information is there to support this?
>
This depends on how diligently you have searched the surviving
documentation.
Monica
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
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>
>
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