I'm really not so sure Monica. Whilst it's certainly true that whenever Strad is mentioned it's generally only the five courses which are of interest and so are the only ones referred to, But I have this nagging memory that in fact he describes theorboed guitar stringing. Indeed I also recall FoMRHI had relevant articles in mid/late 70s - I must look.
I've been to my stack (ie loft) to find the articles/facsimile but no luck so far in the piles of misc paper - I will persevere... Another who thinks the basses are at the upper octave is Tyler ( 'the guitar... OUP 2002) page 74 Footnote 51 where he describes Granata's theorboed guitar as having seven 'unfingered basses tuned daitonically down to a A at the bottom of the bass clef' ie down to A as I suggest and not to A,. Of course Tyler is not always reliable , but..... Sources requiring the same instruments are listed as Granata 1659, the De Gallot Ms, I-NC Ms (have you got this?) and Bob Spencer's sonata for 'chitarrone francese'. Of course, by the mid 18th century the various types of arch citterns and arch guitars introduced as novelties could use heavy overwound strings and be strung down to A,. But, as said earlier, I really can't see getting a satisfactory sound from a gut string c. 116cm at A,. MH --- On Tue, 9/9/08, Monica Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Monica Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: arch-guitar > To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Date: Tuesday, 9 September, 2008, 4:35 PM > Stradivarius describes the strings on the fingerboard and > the 4th and 5th > courses are octave strung. > > > > I don't think he describes the open courses. > > > > Monica > > > > > > First & second strings: These must be like two guitar > first strings > (cantini) > > Third & fourth strings:These must be like > two guitar second > strings (sotanelle) > > Fifth & sixth strings: These must be like two > thick violin first > strings (cantini) > > Seventh string: This must be a violin second > string (canto) > > Eighth string: This must be a guitar second > string > (sotanella) > > Ninth string: This must be the thickest possible > violin second string > (canto) > > Tenth string: This must be a violin first > string (cantino) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Martyn Hodgson" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Rob MacKillop" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: "Vihuela" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 3:21 PM > Subject: [LUTE] Re: arch-guitar > > > > Yes, indeed, they would double some of the fingered strings > but that, I > think, is the point: you can play an open bass whilst > fingering a string > (even though the same open pitch) - the same advantage > indeed as the late Dm > lute of course ie not so much/or only to get lower notes > but to free the > left hand. > > I mention all this because I recall an early source (may be > Strad's arch > guitar) gives higher octave stringing (I can't lay my > hands on the paperwork > at the present but will dig out in due course. > > Monica may know what I'm on about....... > > Martyn > > > --- On Tue, 9/9/08, Rob MacKillop > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: Rob MacKillop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: arch-guitar > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Cc: "Vihuela" > <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > Date: Tuesday, 9 September, 2008, 3:07 PM > > The string length of the basses is c.116cms. I say > > 'circa' because I > > couldn't find a tape measure, so ended up using > a > > six-inch ruler... > > > > The Granata Sarbande and Corrente do not have > passages > > that would > > suggest anything other than GFEDCBA. In the tuning > you > > mention, Martyn, > > (gfedcBA) does not the g double the open third > course, > > and likewise the > > d with the fourth course? I can't see any > allowances > > for that in the > > scores. > > > > The Sarabande is difficult to play without laughing > - > > the first seven > > bass notes (tasto) chime out Prokofiev's Hall > of the > > Mountain King (if > > that's the correct title) from Pictures at an > > Exhibition... This music > > is difficult to play! I wish I hadn't promised > a > > video!! > > > > Rob > > 2008/9/8 Martyn Hodgson > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Rob, > > Thanks - interesting: there's a thought that > the > > 'basses' could have > > been at the upper octave rather than the lower as > you > > indicate. In > > short, descending from the 5th course string > plucked > > first by the > > thumb (ie from the a downwards g f e d c B A and > not > > G F E D C B, > > A, as you say it's now strung. What's > the > > string length of the > > basses? I would have thought it needed to be > around > > 160cm to get a > > reasonable sound from a plain gut low A, string > but > > I'm not sure > > that any theorboed guitar had basses so very > long. > > Martyn > > > > --- On Mon, 8/9/08, Rob MacKillop > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > From: Rob MacKillop > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] arch-guitar > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Cc: "Vihuela" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Date: Monday, 8 September, 2008, 10:25 AM > > > > > It has diapasons on the fourth and fifth, on > the > > finger > > > side, high octave on > > > the thumb side. Then it has single bass > strings > > descending > > > from G to low A, > > > then it leaps up for a g# and an f#. > > > > > > I don't know if it 'works for me' > - not > > sure > > > what that means. Seems to fit > > > the music by Granata OK. > > > > > > Wolfgang has made the lower nut wide enough to > fit > > a sixth > > > course for > > > archlute tuning in E or F. I won't have > time to > > explore > > > that, however. > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > 2008/9/8 Martyn Hodgson > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > Rob, > > > > > > > > Are the basses at the upper octave and > does > > this work > > > for you? > > > > > > > > Martyn > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 7/9/08, Rob MacKillop > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Rob MacKillop > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > Subject: [VIHUELA] arch-guitar > > > > > To: "Vihuela" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > Date: Sunday, 7 September, 2008, > 11:23 PM > > > > > Just received the arch-guitar from > > Wolfgand > > > Emmerich. I have > > > > > one week > > > > > to master it (!) before he takes > it > > back to > > > Germany. It > > > > > is a well-made > > > > > instrument, but everytime I try > to > > play > > > something, I > > > > > can't help > > > > > thinking I am in archlute tuning. > I > > have some > > > Gallot - > > > > > but that is in a > > > > > weird tuning requiring a change > of > > strings, so > > > will give > > > > > it a miss. I > > > > > also have some Granata, so I hope > to > > record > > > that before > > > > > Saturday, maybe > > > > > a video, we'll see. > > > > > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list > > information > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > References > > > > 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 3. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 4. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 5. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu > > 6. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 7. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 8. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 9. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu > > 10. > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
