No - that is not what Foscarini means in Rule 5.

You have to look at the example which Fosco refers to - the Corrente detta
la Favorita on p.60.

On the first line you will see H3 with a 6 beside it and underneath there is
a
down stroke and an upstroke.

What you are supposed to play here is in tablature...

   3    3            c        c
   5    5            g        g
   5    5            c        c
   6    5            f         e
   3    3            g        g
   D    U

In other words you are inserting a suspended 4th into the first chord and
resolving it onto the 3rd in the second.

This notational device occurs over and over again in the music and is
perfectly clear.   What Fosco means is that you should be able to hear the
dissonance and its resolution.   Both chords should be played in full.

I can't find the message but I think Lex referred to another slightly
different situation in the Aria della Fulia variata on p.23.

This is on the third line down where you see the second letter C.   There
are two down strokes under the C, then the figure 3 on the first course with
an upstroke followed by another down stroke mark.

In this instance you would play chord C twice.   The third time you would
substitute the 3  (G) for the 2 (F#) on the first course and then repeat the
proper chord C again.

What you play is

   C   C   0    C
               0
               2
               3
               3

The note G is an upper auxiliary note which is also the 4th resolving onto
the 3rd in the final chord..   It could be played as a single note or
included in the chord.

In both these examples the note G does have some harmonic implications - in
the first example it must resolve downwards.    In the second it should
either resolve downwards or if it is a passing note rather than an auxiliary
note it should rise to A.   (At least it should go somewhere).

The other situation which Lex referred to which is on p.32 is really covered by Foscarini's rule 6 - which I wont quote in full but refers to passages basically in 3 or 4 parts. Fosco says that you should only play the notes written. As there are strum marks you would have to include an open course in some instances but this doesn't mean that you have to do so indiscriminately.

I wont attempt to explain the Pedruil passage but it doesn't make much sense whichever way you look at it.

Lex must know all this as he plays some of the pieces. If he doesn't he should. The reason why I got so cross with him was that he was trying to argue that Rule 5 isn't clear. It is.

I haven't sent the message to him as he has left the list. Feel free to forward it to him if you want to discuss it with him but count me out.

Regards

Monica




----- Original Message ----- From: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "Lex Eisenhardt" <eisenha...@planet.nl>; "Monica Hall"
<mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 9:22 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: stringing and performance - More objections



  Dear Monica,

  What's the point you're trying to make by repeating this:

  'And if there is  a number following after [the letter] either above or
  > below, you should ensure that  this can be heard clearly and
  distinctly,
  > whether the stroke is made  up or down.  If after any such number you
  find
  > another stroke WITHOUT a letter,  this stroke belongs to the
  preceding
  > letter which should be repeated.  This rule applies in general to
  many of
  > the pieces that you may play, and among others it is  appropriate  to
  the
  > "Corrente, dette la Favorita" found on  page 60.'

  Surely it reads that he expects a strum ('stroke up or down') but that
  one needs to ensure the melody is heard through any accompanying
  harmont.  ie precisely what I'm trying to put across to
  you..................

  Martyn
  --- On Fri, 3/9/10, Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

    From: Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
    Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: stringing and performance
    To: "Lex Eisenhardt" <eisenha...@planet.nl>
    Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
    Date: Friday, 3 September, 2010, 12:23

  > The strict application of Foscarini's fourth rule leads to new
  questions.
  > In
  > many places we first have a chord (for example A major = letter I),
  then
  > comes a single 3 on the second line of the tab (the note d') and then
  the
  > strumming continues while there is nothing in the tab. The most
  obvious
  > solution is to return to the original chord, but it is unclear. If
  the
  > original chord should be strummed in full again, what about the
  single
  > note?
  The fourth rule does not apply in this circumstance.   It is covered by
  Foscarini's Fifth rule.
  And if there is  a number following after [the letter] either above or
  below, you should ensure that  this can be heard clearly and
  distinctly,
  whether the stroke is made  up or down.  If after any such number you
  find
  another stroke WITHOUT a letter,  this stroke belongs to the preceding
  letter which should be repeated.  This rule applies in general to many
  of
  the pieces that you may play, and among others it is  appropriate  to
  the
  "Corrente, dette la Favorita" found on  page 60.
  I do wish you lot would actually read these introductions......
  >> This really excludes the idea that all the passing notes should
  always be
  >> accomapnied the chords even if this is possible.
  >
  > Not always, but in certain situations.
  The situations are clearly covered in Foscarini's two rules.
  >
  > By the way, a situation which is very similar to the ex 5 from my
  article
  > (Lute 47) can be found halfway the fourth line of Foscarini's p. 32.
  All
  > strummed, and probably including all courses.
  It also occurs on the first line preceding Chord I+ without a stroke
  mark.
  Who is to say which is intended given the inconsistency of Fosco's
  notation.
  In both contexts a 3-part chord makes
  more sense.   But we have gone over all this before.
  >> This is a very obscure source and there are different ways of
  >> interpreting it.   I wouldn't myself regard it as good scholarly
  practice
  >> to jump to conclusions about anything in it.
  >
  > Then don't
  I am not doing - I think there at least three different ways of
  interpreting
  the passage. I was merely suggesting an alternative way of looking at
  things
  and have never committed myself to one view or the other.  It seems
  that you
  have as you haven't even suggested the possiblity that some of the
  chords
  might include fewer than five courses (6/4s excepted).
  >
  > I will have to repeat that I have never intended to say that barre's
  did
  > not exist. But it seems they were avoided in the _early_ stage, when
  the
  > guitar and its stringing were emerging.
  Which early stage?  How do you know?   Even the table of chords in the
  Cancionero de Bezon includes chords G, H, M and possibly K although it
  is
  difficult to read.
  >> Moreover all of the songs are in keys which have no key signature or
  one
  >> flat so that some of the chords are not much use any.   The songs
  are not
  >> necessarily intended to be performed at written pitch.   The whole
  point
  >> of Amat's tables etc. is to enable the player to transpose to a
  pitch
  >> that suites the singer.   This would involve the other chords.
  >
  > The table is of the sort of pedantry which we often find in tutors.
  With which you no doubt are very familiar but dont understand how to
  use.
  Monica
  > To get on or off this list see list information at
  > [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

  --

References

  1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



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