Thanks Stuart for posting the manuscript. Thanks for your playing as
well...
Looking at the manuscript, I'm trying to find the notorious "doubled"
expression for a note... Namely, what is redundant, and hence opens
the question, why would the composer use redundant expressions for a
note?
The flags above the staff indicating duration are in no way
redundant... They would be there for rasgueado or punteado, because
they indicate how many strokes are in a measure (when the music
expresses measures), and how much time should be between strokes. What
IS redundant is the expression of a NUMBER value along with a strum
mark. The existence of a number in the tab indicates a stroke, so
adding the strum mark is a second indication of the same stroke. Up to
now I had misunderstood what Martyn was commenting on. So Martyn, are
you saying that there should be no stroke mark if there is a number on
a string? Because that is the only redundancy I can see.
As to *why* there would be a strum mark if there is also a number, I
can still maintain that it's to indicate up- vs down-strokes for the
individual notes. That is important -- especially so if you use
bordones. But even without bordones, up or down lends a variation to
the pulse, and there's nothing trivial about that. Further, looking at
the manuscript, I see that Foscarini calls for changes in the up/down
pulse that I didn't initially hit upon from Monica's transcription. I
wonder if Monica would consider adding in the strum maks for those
notes, or some other indication of up- vs down-stroke. But my point
remains -- even if you take a number as a single note only, the
expression of the single note and the strum direction are not redundant
in my view.
Now if anything for the BORDONE argument, you could take the stroke
marks after the G as an argument in favor of bordones... Why insist on
a down-stroke to start that figure, when it echos an earlier figure
that began with an up-stroke?. But to be honest, I have no appetite
for that argument! When the day comes that I put bordones on my
instrument, I will still probably play this piece.
A question I would ask Monica is whether she would admit experiments
with diminution to lead into these passing single notes? Would that
have been a practice at the time?
Notation is and always has been an imperfect means to transmit what is
inherently an experience in time (4 dimensions), reduced to
2-dimensional markings on paper. By my reading, the strum marks, the
duration marks, and the numbers, in conjunction, inform the gestures I
make with my instrument. I see no controversey in that.
cud
__________________________________________________________________
From: Stuart Walsh <s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
To: Martyn Hodgson <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>; Vihuelalist
<vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Tue, September 7, 2010 5:52:15 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Why two notations for the same play?
On 07/09/2010 08:33, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
> Hmmm..
>
> Well you may not read this Monica but someone might who can
enlighten
> us as to why Foscarini in particular uses two distinct notations
for IN
> THE SAME PIECE if they are to be played in precisely the same
way! And
> no, you haven't really explained this since the idea that flags do
not
> 'indicate the rhythm' satisfactorily is simply not true.
>
> Martyn
This is quite a tortuous thread. I don't think we should get too cross
with each other for not meticulously reading other people's messages.
I've noticed in other discussions that some things I've written
obviously haven't been read by some other contributors. And when I
write something I often haven't meticulously read the relevant message
I'm replying too. (Like now!)
Martyn, are you talking about La Favorita on p.60? This:
[1]http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/Favorita.jpg
(Surely Monica has given her response to this. She claims it's a result
of an evolving notation; mature 'mixed notation' hadn't been invented
yet!)
Monica's interpretation of this piece - and discussion of the issues:
(page 36 - bit page 55 of the pdf)
[2]http://www.tinyurls.co.uk/Z11810
Anyway, if it La Favorita, it's quite clear that it's not at all
clear: no bar lines, no indication that the first chord is,or is not,
the first beat of the bar etc. Monica's interpretation and
transcription of this piece seems very convincing. Here's a very rough
and ready go at the first section (16 bars, too!) on a very poor
instrument (the single notes don't shine out at all) and an instrument
with bourdons.
[3]http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/STE-015.mp3
Monica has made a tremendous effort in trying to make these pieces
playable.
(I've been playing other instruments recently and I'd forgotten just
how difficult some of these guitar chords can be. (Especially Ms))
Anyway, Martyn, I think you are saying that some of these single notes,
notated with a strum (and/or rhythm sign) could or should be played
along with the preceding chord. I don't know how you would do that
with bar 1 (Monica's edition) but it would be easy to do at bar 6, 7
and 12. But Monica says that Foscarini expressly says not to in one his
rules (mentioning La Favorita) and thereby establishing a principle.
Either way, it's not gong to make a huge difference, is it?
Stuart
> --- On Mon, 6/9/10, Monica Hall<[4]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
> From: Monica Hall<[5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Partial strums in Foscarini (was
> Foscarini/Gallot)
> To: "Martyn Hodgson"<[6]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
> Cc: "Vihuelalist"<[7]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Date: Monday, 6 September, 2010, 16:29
>
> I am afraid I am not prepared to waste any more time arguing about
> this. If you think you know better than anyone else you can
translate
> the Italian into English yourself. The term he uses is "botte"
which
> means strokes.
> I have already explained why he is inconsistent in his use of note
> values. Corbetta also puts in note values as well as strokes. As
do
> many of the earlier books.
> The reason why I lose my cool is because there are some people on
this
> list who are unable to admit that they are ever wrong and try to
impose
> their views regardless. What do you expect me to do? Turn round
and
> say "Oh yes - I think you are right" after having given the matter
a
> lot of thought and played
> much of the music. I find that patronising.
> I am not going to follow Lex and storm off the list but I am going
to
> take a break. I have better things to do with my time.
> Monica
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martyn Hodgson"
> <[1][8]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
> To: "Monica Hall"<[2][9]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> Cc: "Vihuelalist"<[3][10]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 4:00 PM
> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Partial strums in Foscarini (was
> Foscarini/Gallot)
> >
> >
> > Well.... You've given the translation before (and I presume
it is
> 100%
> > unequivocal in referring to the relevant slashes rather than
flags
> in
> > their respective places in the piece on p 60?) and whilst I
noted
> what
> > seems to be being said, the real problem remains that in some
> pieces he
> > notates these 'single' notes in two different ways - as
already
> > mentioned in the Balletto Polacco page 19 for example.
> >
> > If the slash/stroke is to be applied so universally as you
suggest
> (ie
> > he expects this specific rule to be applied generally in all
his
> > pieces) why does he bother to show 'single' note quavers in
two
> > distinct ways in the same piece? You say that just flags
alone
> doesn't
> > 'indicate the rhythm' and imply that the slashes/strokes do,
but
> it is
> > really perfectly clear with just flags above the system - in
> particular
> > compare the opening of both first and second halves with
their
> quaver
> > slashes with the single notes indicated by flags later on in
the
> two
> > halves. It is very difficult to escape the view that the two
> different
> > ways of notating single note quavers do not imply some
difference
> in
> > playing (in this piece the opening 'single' notated notes
played
> with a
> > partial strum/brush and the later plucked), but you'd have
them
> played
> > exactly the same.
> >
> > Incidentally I don't see that a partial/discriminatory strum
does
> not
> > allow 'a coherent melodic line' to be created; you might as
well
> argue
> > that, for example, 43 cadences in all guitar music should
always
> be
> > plucked to ensure the melodic line is 'created'.
> >
> > rgds
> >
> > Martyn
> > --- On Mon, 6/9/10, Monica
Hall<[4][11]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > From: Monica Hall<[5][12]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> > Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Partial strums in Foscarini (was
> > Foscarini/Gallot)
> > To: "Martyn Hodgson"<[6][13]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
> > Cc: "Vihuelalist"<[7][14]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > Date: Monday, 6 September, 2010, 15:05
> >
> > If you are saying that as a general principal you might not
always
> > include
> > all 5 courses in a chord when repeating it on the upstroke
then I
> have
> > no
> > problem with that. However when Foscarini puts a stroke mark
> under a
> > single figure following a chord or in between two chords I
> > think he has made it clear in Rule 4 that usually a single
note
> should
> > be
> > played. To repeat what he says again...
> > "These must be played singly; that is to say you must pluck
neither
> > less nor more strings than those which are shown. In this
way the
> > true effect of the ornamental notes will be felt and the
parts
> will
> > follow clearly one after the other which is what I intend."
> > His reasons for saying this are perfectly clear. It creates
a
> > coherent melodic line.
> > The fact that he puts in the note values a well (although he
> doesn't
> > always do so) is another matter. These are necessary to
indicate
> the
> > rhythm.
> > What he is doing is combining two different practices. The
> earlier
> > practice of indicating the single notes between the chords
with
> > upstrokes whilst following the later practice of omitting
stroke
> signs
> > from more extended passages in lute style.
> > Indicating single notes or longer passages only by means of
note
> values
> > must have been a recent innovation - possibly even his idea.
> > As far as the Corrente on p.60 is concerned he has
specifically
> > mentioned this piece as being one where the passing notes
should be
> > treated as single notes.
> > The reason why in the first few lines there are up and down
strokes
> is
> > probably because he is imposing on the piece the stroke
pattern
> which
> > would be appropriate if the piece consisted solely of 5-part
> chords
> > which are to be strummed.
> > We are at least in complete agreement over the barre
question. I
> am
> > afraid Lex does not know what he is talking about. Brizeno
> includes
> > the equivalent of Chords G and H as well as other barre
chords.
> James
> > Tyler has included a transcription from the Bologna
manuscript -
> one of
> > the earliest (1680s) with alfabeto and this calls for the use
of
> chord
> > G. There is a hidden agenda to all this. He wants to prove
the
> > guitar always had octave stringing on both the 4th and 5th
courses.
> > The idea that the 6th course wasn't added until quite late
because
> the
> > guitar had a re-entrant tuning doesn't fit in with his
theories.
> > Regards
> > Monica
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martyn Hodgson"
> > <[1][8][15]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: "Vihuelalist"<[2][9][16]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>;
"Monica Hall"
> > <[3][10][17]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> > Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 9:11 AM
> > Subject: [VIHUELA] Partial strums in Foscarini (was
> Foscarini/Gallot)
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Monica,
> > >
> > > Yes, indeed, the passacaille on f72v if of Italian
origin -
> which
> > is
> > > precisely why I choose it to demonstrate the point that
having
> > single
> > > notes both with flags above the stave AND single notes
with
> slashes
> > > (strokes) on the stave showed that this source expected
partial
> > > ('discriminatory' as I prefer to call it) strumming when
only
> > single
> > > notes are shown after a chord.
> > >
> > > I think the light it sheds on Foscarini is that some of
the
> > > slashes(strokes) on single notes after a chord in his
works
> might
> > be
> > > equally well played with a partial strum as well as just
single
> > notes
> > > which is, of course, my point from the outset. And, as
you'll
> know,
> > > Foscarini himself shows single note play both by slashes
AND by
> > above
> > > stave flags in the same piece (random search produces
many -
> the
> > first
> > > is on p 19 of first book). It's pleasing that we seem to
be
> > approaching
> > > some measure of agreement over this.
> > >
> > > I think some of the confusion may have been because you
were
> > responding
> > > to Lex's somewhat different points at the same time as
> responding
> > to
> > > mine.... Re communications with Lex, my only input into
this
> was to
> > > point out that, contrary to a stated view that the
'barre' only
> > became
> > > widespread (especially in higher positions) with the
advent of
> the
> > 6
> > > string guitar, in fact early practice was to be very
fluent
> with
> > the
> > > use of 'barre' in movable alfabeto chords and gave
examples
> from
> > > Valdambrini's (1646) use even up to fret 11!
> > >
> > > rgds
> > >
> > > Martyn
> > > --- On Sun, 5/9/10, Monica
Hall<[4][11][18]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Monica Hall<[5][12][19]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> > > Subject: Foscarini/Gallot
> > > To: "Vihuelalist"<[6][13][20]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > > Cc: "Martyn
Hodgson"<[7][14][21]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
> > > Date: Sunday, 5 September, 2010, 16:24
> > >
> > > Sorry I only just got around to this. The passacaille
on f72v
> and
> > many
> > > of the other pieces seem to have been copied by Gallot
or his
> > servant
> > > Monnier from a source in Italian tab.and converted into
> > French. In
> > > this particular piece the alfabeto chords have been left
in
> place
> > > rather than converted. But the Chaconne on f.78v most
of
> which is
> > > actually by Corbetta is all in French tab. Gallot seems
to be
> > rather
> > > inconsistent in the way he notes the strums sometimes
using the
> > French
> > > way putting the note values on the stave with tails up
or down,
> in
> > > others putting stroke marks down or up from the top
line. He
> does
> > > fairly clearly put the note values above the stave when
these
> are
> > > played as single notes. Clearly some of the strummed
chords
> > consist of
> > > less than 5 courses.
> > >
> > > There are places where auxiliary/passing notes are added
and
> > resolved
> > > over the same chord e.g. the cadence at the end ot the
second
> > variation
> > > where a 4-3 suspension is added to Chord I . In the
fourth
> > variation
> > > there is a b on the first line following Chord D which
is a
> passing
> > > note which could either be included in Chord D as it is
> repeated
> > (it is
> > > just possible) or played as a single note. But he
doesn't seem
> to
> > do
> > > this very often.
> > >
> > > I am not sure that this really sheds any light on
Foscarini as
> he
> > > doesn't always make a very clear distinction between
chords to
> be
> > > strummed in full and single notes. He has clearly said
that
> > passages
> > > like that in the Corrente on p.60 are to be played as
single
> notes.
> > >
> > > If you are going to insist that because he has put in
stroke
> marks
> > some
> > > how or other the chords must be strummed then I don't
really
> agree.
> > > There are other legitimate reasons why he has put in
stroke
> > marks. A
> > > better example of this is the Aria di Firenze on p.16.
To
> quote
> > Gary
> > > Boye
> > >
> > > "Here single notes are attached to upstrokes even though
they
> are
> > to be
> > > plucked not strummed. The use of the upstroke symbol
can be
> > explained
> > > be the need for horizontal separation of the numbers".
> > >
> > > The music would sometimes be unintelligible without the
stroke
> > marks.
> > > And there are lots of places where it does help to have
> them. It
> > > makes the music easier to read. The stroke marks may be
used
> for
> > > purposes other than to indicate strumming.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Monica
> > >
> > > You also ask 'What sort of evidence is there for this
sort of
> > > discriminatory play anyway?'. Which is rather begging
the
> > question -
> > > if
> > > it were crystal clear we'd not be joined in debate
over this
> > very
> > > issue.
> > > As far as I'm concerned it is the original sources
which are
> the
> > > starting point which is the start and a good source is
the
> de
> > Gallot
> > > MS. Numerous pieces intabulate chords followed by
single
> letters
> > > with
> > > an up or down slash on the top line as in the
Foscarini we
> > discussed
> > > (a
> > > down or up strum/brush I suggest) but in the same
piece one
> can
> > also
> > > find a chord (with slash) followed by tablature with
the
> flag
> > ABOVE
> > > the
> > > stave - whiich I suggest certainly does mean play this
alone
> as
> > > single
> > > notes. In short the same piece will often contain
both
> > > strummed/brushed single notes with accompanying chord
and
> single
> > > notes
> > > played alone. Numerous examples - eg Pasacaille on
page 72.
> > > As already said, Corbetta's stricture also indicates
> strumming
> > of
> > > such
> > > passing notes with part of the accompanying chord was
not
> unkown
> > > Martyn
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > >
[8][15][22]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >
> > --
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1.
>
[16][23]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yaho
o.co
> .uk
> > 2.
>
[17][24]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmou
th.e
> du
> > 3.
>
[18][25]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co
.uk
> > 4.
>
[19][26]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co
.uk
> > 5.
>
[20][27]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co
.uk
> > 6.
>
[21][28]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmou
th.e
> du
> > 7.
>
[22][29]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yaho
o.co
> .uk
> > 8.
[23][30]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1.
[31]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co
.uk
> 2.
[32]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 3.
[33]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.e
du
> 4.
[34]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 5.
[35]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 6.
[36]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co
.uk
> 7.
[37]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.e
du
> 8.
[38]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co
.uk
> 9.
[39]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.e
du
> 10.
[40]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 11.
[41]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 12.
[42]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 13.
[43]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.e
du
> 14.
[44]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co
.uk
> 15. [45]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 16.
[46]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co
.uk
> 17.
[47]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.e
du
> 18.
[48]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 19.
[49]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 20.
[50]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 21.
[51]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.e
du
> 22.
[52]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co
.uk
> 23. [53]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
--
References
1. http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/Favorita.jpg
2. http://www.tinyurls.co.uk/Z11810
3. http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/STE-015.mp3
4. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
5. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
6. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
7. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
8. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
9. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
10. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
11. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
12. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
13. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
14. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
15. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
16. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
17. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
18. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
19. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
20. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
21. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
22. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
23. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co
24. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.e
25. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
26. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
27. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
28. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.e
29. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co
30. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
31. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
32. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
33. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
34. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
35. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
36. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
37. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
38. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
39. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
40. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
41. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
42. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
43. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
44. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
45. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
46. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
47. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
48. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
49. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
50. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
51. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
52. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
53. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
