Dear Monica,
I'm not suggesting that continuo on the guitar was never done - clearly
that'd be daft since there are continuo instructions for the
instrument.
All this was trying to do was to suggest to guitarists (who,
understandably, favour their own instrument first) that other
arrangements were rather more general: eg chamber organ which, in this
case, is the instrument I'd favour. Especially since it enables the
very distinctive sound of the two instruments (guitar and organ) to be
well differentiated. I play theorbo with organ quite a lot when
performing sacred works and it is one of the most satisfying
experiences - but I wld say that.....
rgds
M
--- On Fri, 15/4/11, Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
From: Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Granata
To: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Friday, 15 April, 2011, 17:56
Dear Martin
Unfortunately I am not familiar with any of these sources!
As a general observation however, I think that all these sources
suggest
that a
variety of different accompaniments and arrangements could be
used. You
can't lay down hard and fast rules because in the 17th century they
didn't
have any. Interestingly Piccinini apparently
suggests that some of his pieces could be played on the lute and organ
with
basso continuo or chitarrone and organ although no parts for these
instruments are included in the printed book. [I have a recording of
some of
the pieces played in this way].
As far as unambiguous (17th c) references
to the guitar playing basso continuo together with other bass
instruments is
concerned - is there any unamibiguous evidence that it didn't. Why
should
it not do so? We don't really have any evidence one way or the other.
There seem to me to be completely unrealistic expectations as to what
any of
the sources ought to tell us.
Monica
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martyn Hodgson" <[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "Monica Hall" <[2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 2:47 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Granata
>
> Dear Monica,
>
> You may well be right that the guitar part was originally
independent
> and the string parts added to it (by Granata?): that might explain
the
> harmonic discrepencies both you and I have pointed out.
>
> Do you know Pittoni's 1669 printed collection of tiorba solos (with
> figured bass)? They have something to tell us here I think: the
bass is
> often more 'complete' than the intabulated tiorba part. But, even
more
> intriguing, is that a MS of violin music was discovered in
contemporary
> hand which Orlando Christoferetti identified as an additional
violin
> part grafted on to some of the tiorba solos (not all the Sonatas
had
> the added part). The presents a good model of the practice which
might
> apply in the case of the Granata collection. In Pittoni's
collection
> the basso is specified as being for 'l'Organ'o for the 12 church
> sonatas and 'Il Clavicembalo' for the 12 chamber sonatas.
>
> A facsimile (cheap!) of the printed books and the MS are available
from
> the SPES publishing house.
>
> Martyn
>
> --- On Fri, 15/4/11, Monica Hall <[4]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
> From: Monica Hall <[5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Granata
> To: "Stuart Walsh" <[6]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
> Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[7]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Date: Friday, 15 April, 2011, 12:41
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stuart Walsh" <[1][8]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
> To: "[2][9]michael.f...@notesinc.com"
<[3][10]michael.f...@notesinc.com>
> Cc: <[4][11]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 11:43 PM
> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Granata
> > On 14/04/2011 22:28, [5][12]michael.f...@notesinc.com wrote:
> >> Dear List,
> >>
> >>
> >> I have recently finished editing all the known chamber music
for
> >> Baroque guitar and strings, including all these "Capricci"
by
> >> Granata.
> >> I noted the light figured bass markings here and in
Granata's
> Sonata
> >> (1659) for the same instrumentation (in which the violin is
> *not* a
> >> mere doubling). However, I decided not to include any
continuo
> >> realizations, because the guitar already provides a nice
sketch
> of
> >> the
> >> harmonies. (This decision was reached partly in conference
with
> >> Monica.)
> >>
> >>
> >> That said, please let me point out three "Simphonies" by
Henry
> >> Grenerin
> >> for two violins, guitar, and "basse" with figures, where the
> figures
> >> are specified to be for a theorbo. We should probably
consider
> the
> >> theorbo/chitarrone to be a good continuo instrument for
> Granata's
> >> music
> >> as well.
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > I've been looking through more of Granata's "Novi Capricci"
(1674).
> For a
> > start I feel a little unsettled by some of the tablature. Why are
g#s
> > (you'd think, first string fourth fret) sometimes put on the
second
> course
> > at the ninth fret? There are other awkward moments too where you
> might
> > expect a guitarist to smooth things out... and just be a it more
> > guitaristic..
> >
> > And the guitar doesn't always merely double the top string part.
> >
> > Most strikingly, there are places where the guitar harmony simply
> doesn't
> > match the bass part. For example, the D minor Giga (p.18). In
bars
> 6,7 and
> > 10 the guitar is playing a C chord in inversion and the bass line
> seems to
> > indicate F major. And in the B minor Alemanda, there is a point
where
> the
> > guitar plays an alfebeto B minor and the bass line (on a strong
> beat, not
> > a passing note) has the note G. As far as I can see, you fairly
often
> > have to make small adjustments to get the parts to fit. And there
> would be
> > far fewer issues if the guitar was fully re-entrant.
> >
> > If the guitarist read the music, not the notation, there would be
no
> > issues! It does look rather like like the guitar part is
independent.
> >
> >
> > Stuart
> >
> > I can't help thinking there is something odd going on.
> Well - with the baroque guitar we can be pretty sure that something
odd
> is
> going on. But I am inclined to agree with you that the guitar
parts
> may
> have originally been independent of the string parts. If indeed
they
> are
> the pieces which Corbetta says he pirated, or if they are actually
by
> Corbetta rather than Granata, it could be that the versions printed
in
> 1674
> are re-arrangements of rather earlier pieces.
> And needless to say I think you are right about them being intended
for
> the
> re-entrant tuning. I think this is the most suitable for
Granata's
> late
> books at least. But I am not sure about the G#s - haven't had
time to
> go
> through and look at them.
> Monica
> >>
> >> [1][6][13]mich...@lgv-pub.com
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> References
> >>
> >> 1. mailto:[7][14]michael.f...@notesinc.com
> >>
> >>
> >> To get on or off this list see list information at
> >> [8][15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1.
[16]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=s.wa...@ntlworld.com
> 2.
>
[17]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Michael.Fink@NotesInc.
com
> 3.
>
[18]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=michael.fink@notesinc.
com
> 4.
[19]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.e
du
> 5.
>
[20]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Michael.Fink@NotesInc.
com
> 6.
[21]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mich...@lgv-pub.com
> 7.
>
[22]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=michael.fink@notesinc.
com
> 8. [23]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
--
References
1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
4. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
5. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
6. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=s.wa...@ntlworld.com
7. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
8. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=s.wa...@ntlworld.com
9. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=michael.f...@notesinc.com
10. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=michael.f...@notesinc.com
11. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
12. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=michael.f...@notesinc.com
13. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mich...@lgv-pub.com
14. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=michael.f...@notesinc.com
15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
16. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=s.wa...@ntlworld.com
17. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=michael.f...@notesinc.com
18. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=michael.f...@notesinc.com
19. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
20. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=michael.f...@notesinc.com
21. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mich...@lgv-pub.com
22. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=michael.f...@notesinc.com
23. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
