This message is long. If you don't like tedious messages, please press
'delete' immediately
Even if you had not found a single source which specifically
mentioned the guitar as one of the possible instruments to use for the
accompaniment you still can't prove that the guitar was never used in this
way.
That would indeed be stupid!
As I pointed out - what appears on the title page is simply what
the publisher though appropriate. In Gary's list only one source
mentioned the angelique and another the
pandora. That doesn't mean that no-one ever accompanied any of the other
songs with these instruments.
Indeed.
I'm not saying never, I just notice a discrepancy between the great
enthusiasm for 'combo' continuo in our time, and that what historical
sources tell us.
Of course this is a very different repertoire, but Grenerin himself
speaks
of 'songs with accompaniment of the guitar', and not of 'songs with the
accompaniment of the guitar and theorbo' or anything.
You take everything so literally and in such a pedantic way.
I'd prefer to avoid wishful reading.
If you would consider pedantry of any kind out of place here, regarding
'netiquette', we should perhaps better close this list...
You seem to
think that because Grenerin has not written a lengthy preface covering
every
conceivable aspect of how the pieces could be played, you can interpret
what
he says in the narrowest possible way.
What I think is not always what I seem to think...
He may not have mentioned the theorbo in the introduction but
he has at the beginning of the pieces themselves. How can you be sure
that every
player who read this instruction would have known for certain that the
theorbo was an alternative and not to be played together with the guitar?
Again, that's not what I say (or think). It was you who argued that the text
implies that the accompaniment was intended for this combination.
Grenerin's
accompaniments are in a similar mixed style as are Carre's consort pieces.
The important difference between Grenerin's guitar continuo and most other
realized accompaniments is that with him the bass is in principle the lowest
voice. It is really a figured bass in tablature.
Don't get me wrong, I think that Corbetta's songs would perhaps be better
off with an extra continuo instrument, because of the force majeure of
the
vocal ensemble.
The same is true of Grenerin's pieces. 2 violins in the sinfonies and up
to 4 voices in the vocal pieces. To be effective in performance they
would
need more than a single guitar to support them.
Absolutely.
Quite different from
accompanying someone singing.
> But the example of Corbetta is exceptional.
Not really. As the most illustrious guitarist of his time, what he has
provided here is probably typical of what others did.
Where do we find similar continuo tablatures made by his followers? As said
before, Grenerin's is different in one essential respect, which is bass
position.
This may be the reason why Corbetta has written
the guitar part in tablature, and not just directed the player to his
basso continuo instructions, to realize his own accompaniment.
That's just more idle speculation - to fit your theories.
And my theories are what?
I would be interested to see what would come out of attempts to
extemporize a basso continuo, making use of the instructions from Corbetta's
1671
book. His directions differ from the methods of Sanz or Matteis in that
these instruct you how to play the bass and the figures together. Corbetta
doesn't.
I would consider Corbetta's song accompaniments as composed guitar parts,
not as proper basso continuo. With some good will they can be compared to
the style of Matteis' 'easy basses for a beginner to learn to learn to play
his part' (see 'The Table' in Matteis 1682)
I wonder why you are so anxious to prove that when accompanying the
guitar was never supported by another instrument.
Only you seem to think that I am.
Isn't it all part of your mission to prove that it was always "Bordones as
usual".
Mission? So far I am not convinced really, by what are supposed to be black
swans.
Lex
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
