If I understand him right, Jackson doesn't suggest that these
   dissonances were _never_ doubled in (solo) accompaniment to the solo
   voice. To me the examples he gives were a reason to reconsider present
   practices.

   And indeed the example under discussion is from a solo piece. However,
   even if 3/4 clashes are quite common with some composers, it feels
   uncomfortable that this particular 3-4-3 cadence d#' - e' - d#' ( - e')
   seems never to appear with the open e' included in his book (if I am
   right). Neither in the continuo examples, nor in the solo's.


   And as a reply to Monica's last post: also I think that the open e'
   strings in these examples (Dean p. 263-4) are not clearly intended to
   ring on. I would not play it like that.


   Best wishes, Lex






   Van: Martyn Hodgson [mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk]
   Verzonden: woensdag 20 november 2013 9:43
   Aan: Lex Eisenhardt; 'Monica Hall'; 'WALSH STUART'
   CC: 'Vihuelalist'
   Onderwerp: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Matteis


   Thank you for this Lex.


   Of course here Jackson is speaking about continuo practice where the
   harmonic clash is already there in other vocal and/or instrumental
   lines.  But in the Matteis example this is a guitar solo.


   Incidentally I'm not entirely convinced by Jackson's paper (and the
   slightly selective examples) that the practice of never doubling
   dissonances in the context was generally universally applied
   historically.


   regards


   Martyn

   _______________________________________________________________________

   From: Lex Eisenhardt <[1]eisenha...@planet.nl>
   To: 'Martyn Hodgson' <[2]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>; 'Monica Hall'
   <[3]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>; 'WALSH STUART' <[4]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   Cc: 'Vihuelalist' <[5]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Tuesday, 19 November 2013, 16:51
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Matteis

   For an on-line article by Roland Jackson, about all sorts of harmonic
   clashes, follow the download link
   [6]http://scholarship.claremont.edu/ppr/vol11/iss1/2/
   Lex
   -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
   Van: [7]lute-...@cs.dartmouth..edu
   [mailto:[8]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Namens
   Martyn Hodgson
   Verzonden: zaterdag 16 november 2013 10:26
   Aan: Monica Hall; WALSH STUART
   CC: Vihuelalist
   Onderwerp: [VIHUELA] Re: Matteis
     Dear Monica,
     This is all a question of context; mostly to do with expected
   cadential
     effects and the prevailing tonality of the melodic line.
     1. For example a dissonance of seconds at a cadence was a common
     practice at the time; both in orchestral writing as well as on the
     guitar etc. The effect even has a modern name: the 'Corelli clash'
     after his frequent use of it.  Typically this occurs at a cadence
   where
     the (sharp) third of the dominant (the sharpened leading note) is
     sounded concurrently with an anticipated tonic (so for a cadence
   ending
     with a G major chord an F# is sounded together with a G).  It is, in
   my
     view, important to play this effect with 'boldness and conviction'
   to
     ensure auditors don't think it's a mistake! In short, it is by no
   means
     too exotic for the period as you suppose below  ('Just talking about
     the last two bars of line three: playing the top and  bottom courses
     open sounds quite rich and exotic! But perhaps far too rich for its
     surroundings').
     So the B to Em cadence at the end of the third line on page 2 of the
     1682 publication with a D# and E sounding concurrently is perfectly
     correct. I suppose you could throw in the open fifth course too (to
     give a 7th A)  but this is not really in line with general practice
   at
     that time (use of sevenths at cadences became much more common in the
     18th century).
     2. However where there is no such cadential (or similar effect)
     context, contemporary auditors would not have expected such rude
     clashes interfering with the melodic line. So, for example on the
   same
     line and 4 bars from the end, the D chord on the second beat would
   not
     have the first course added (an open e' according to Matteis' guitar
     tuning) - Matteis either overlooked this or took it as read that a
     player would not need to be told. Similarly in the 'Aria' at the
     beginning of page 4 the player should not include non-melodic notes
     (such as an open e' on the first beat of the first full bar or the
   open
     b and e' on the first beat of the next bar).  It simply requires
     careful control of the strum - perhaps some guitarists basing their
     early strumming technique on modern flamenco rasgueado may find this
     more difficult but, of course, it's no reason to believe the Old Ones
     were not technically capable/accomplished to achieve such refined
     playing.
     There's also a parallel with unwritten practice in continuo playing:-
     here sometimes a sixth cord is not figured at all - it being assumed
     that the player has sufficient knowledge of basic rules of harmony
   that
     in a particular key sequence such bass notes will generally need
   first
     inversion chords (unless otherwise indicated).
     regards,
     Martyn
     PS Incidentally, I find it easier to follow a discussion if the
     responder does not interweave their reply with the sender's text -
   but
     perhaps that's just me................
       __________________________________________________________________
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   -----------------------------------------------------------------------
   ----------------------------
   Tekst ingevoegd door Panda IS 2013:
   Als het hier gaat om een ongevraagde e-mail (SPAM), klik dan op de
   volgende link om de e-mail te herclasseren: [10]It is SPAM!
   -----------------------------------------------------------------------
   ----------------------------

   --

References

   1. mailto:eisenha...@planet.nl
   2. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
   3. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   4. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   5. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   6. http://scholarship.claremont.edu/ppr/vol11/iss1/2/
   7. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   8. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  10. 
http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_1297&SPAM=true&path=C:\Windows\system32\config\systemprofile\AppData\Local\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202013\AntiSpam

Reply via email to