Hi everyone,
thanks Ada, Franc and Mary for your thoughts. I like the challenge presented, of defining what's "subversive". I agree, as you all point out, there are different kinds of so-called subversive participants: roles in the group, incipient leaders, etc. And I also have been learning, as others point out, that my own sense of attachment to getting somehwere tends to "dream up" subversiveness. Of course, I love following my own agenda, and in some cases, am paid to do so. It would be wrong to let it go. But it's not necessarily about giving up my plans, as much as it is about feeling open or not to others. 
I look forward to hearing some of Ada's thoughts about these postings, when she returns on Monday or Tuesday.  
 ----Original Message-----
From: paul giancarlo/mary shaffer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: Topic #3 Introduction

Hi All,
  My name is Mary and I live in Ashland and am new as a "active" participant in the village well. 
  I have worked with parents and children for  20 years now, and have been an inactive, yet active student of process work for the past 10 years.
  Ada, what do you specifically mean by subversive?  Personally, I think there are different kind of subversions.  For instance, like we talk about in process work, someone in a group setting may be attempting to get in touch with the power/authority/knowing and may be bringing it into a group because at some level they need support in coming out more as a leader.
  Then there is the kind of subversion that is disturbing, where it involves inner work and trying to pick up the spirit behind the subversion inorder to help the process unfold more. 
   And then, sometimes, I just get stuck and irritated with others and feel myself going into a either or thinking, where I pull out my arsenal of boundary setting.  And, sometimes I feel ok about this, and sometimes I don't.
Those are some of my thoughts in the moment.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 11:10 PM
Subject: Topic #3 Introduction

Hi all,
    My name is Ada, and I am a Phase II Process Work student living and working as a Parenting consultant in Portland.
As a person interested in growing as a teacher and public speaker, I am fascinated with what facilitates as well as what inhibits change in myself and the world.
My question for the discussion is:
How can a group deal with the issue of a subversive element being present and consistently disruptive to the group focus?
     I need to let all of you know that I will be out of town from November 6th to the 11th., and I'll do my best to be online during some of that time, but cannot promise that it will work out.
Thanks Julie for this opportunity, to learn and grow through dialogue, and a thank you in advance to all discussion participants.

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