Hi. Comments prefixed with cjr: below.
On 2014-03-06 02:38 PM, André Jaenisch wrote:
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Am 05.03.2014 21:45, schrieb André Jaenisch:
Good evening!
I'm currently exploring the Orca screenreader and which application does
work together with it.
I'm using Sabayon Linux 3.13 with Vim 7.4 (see below). Sadly, VIM does
not expose any information to Orca, nor does GVim v7.4.169.
I wonder, whether this could change in a comming version?
cjr: I have not tried it in years, but if my memory serves me right, you
can use flat screen review on GNOME with Orca for gvim or vim inside a
console window, although this is not ideal.
On the Ctrl+Alt+F# real console windows you can use brltty for Braille
output - some serious blind programmers actually work well like this -
or you can use another, basic and low level speech synthesizer system
called speakup which can be loaded as a kernel module, giving you speech
and Braille super early on during bootup.
But I would welcome you to take a look at this project:
http://code.google.com/p/phonim/
which I started to make vim accessible mainly in Windows.
cjr: Personally I use gvim on Win 8 with my script for JAWS, but it is
tricky to get working since you have to get JAWS to pick up caret moves
so that JAWS can request what text to speak.
On Windows (and I assume all other platforms) gvim draws it's own
cursor, making cursor tracking only possible if your screen reader
supports it, and you have synchronised blinking rates and min and max
cursor width and height.
Look, I really LOVE vim as soon as I get used to it (currently reading
Practical Vim by Drew Neil) and I can see many advantages like the
ability to use it one-handed (-> accessibility potential). So I'd really
like to see some progress in using the AT-SPI (c.f.
https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT-SPI).
cjr: Vim is so amazing that I have gone to great lengths to be able to
use it as a blind programmer. My solution is very primitave but even
only armed with this I can accomplish significantly more than in any
other more accessible out of the box text editors.
When programming C# these days I do prefer using the latest Visual
Studio because only there the features it provides over gvim
specifically for C# programming is a real game changer.
There are a few plugins like the commercial ViEmu and the free VSVim
that bring vim style text navigation and editing to the Visual Studio
editor, but once again there are some accessibility challenges getting
it to work with your screen reader, be it JAWS, or NVDA or something else.
cjr: I've poked around in the core vim sources. It's straight C and
quite low level, non threaded which is why it's so incredibly fast and
light weight, but this also in my limited understanding pose challenges
in terms of accessibility.
cjr: What would be really wonderful one day is if there could be made a
gvim version that uses an accessible text editor control - so something
like a vim API I suppose, that could be the work horse behind an
accessible editor interface.
cjr: For single hand computer usage, do checkout left and right handed
DVORAK keyboard layouts.
cjr: Personally I think the modal user interaction model that vim use is
far superior over other models where you have very complicated multi
keystokes, requiring you to hold down multiple modifyer keys and then
stretch your fingers to get at some action key.
cjr: Note that in recent Visual Studio versions a sort of modal, or
perhaps chained keystroke model is employed where you are able to define
keystrokes of the form Ctrl+D, F, meaning, you hold down Ctrl, then
press D, and then you can leave Ctrl and D and proceed to press F. I'm
not sure how long the chaining can go on for, but this obviously can
multiply the available shortcuts into another dimension.
Since I'm not a member of this mailing list (yet?) I have no idea, how
to get informed about the development in this aspect. Where do I need to go?
Best regards
André Jaenisch
P.S.: Please update your `:h bugs`. The information there is
out-of-date (naming [email protected] as target address, but the homepage
says [email protected]).
$ uname -a
Linux stracciatella 3.13.0-sabayon #1 SMP Thu Feb 27 15:27:16 UTC 2014
x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU P8600 @ 2.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
$ orca --version
3.10.2
$ vim --version
VIM - Vi IMproved 7.4 (2013 Aug 10, compiled Feb 9 2014 06:35:41)
Inklusive der Korrekturen: 1-169
Verändert von Gentoo-7.4.169
Übersetzt von portage@orion
Riesige Version ohne GUI. Ein- (+) oder ausschließlich (-) der
Eigenschaften:
+acl +farsi +mouse_netterm +syntax
+arabic +file_in_path +mouse_sgr +tag_binary
+autocmd +find_in_path -mouse_sysmouse +tag_old_static
-balloon_eval +float +mouse_urxvt -tag_any_white
-browse +folding +mouse_xterm -tcl
++builtin_terms -footer +multi_byte +terminfo
+byte_offset +fork() +multi_lang +termresponse
+cindent +gettext -mzscheme +textobjects
+clientserver -hangul_input +netbeans_intg +title
+clipboard +iconv +path_extra -toolbar
+cmdline_compl +insert_expand +perl +user_commands
+cmdline_hist +jumplist +persistent_undo +vertsplit
+cmdline_info +keymap +postscript +virtualedit
+comments +langmap +printer +visual
+conceal +libcall +profile +visualextra
+cryptv +linebreak +python +viminfo
+cscope +lispindent -python3 +vreplace
+cursorbind +listcmds +quickfix +wildignore
+cursorshape +localmap +reltime +wildmenu
+dialog_con -lua +rightleft +windows
+diff +menu +ruby +writebackup
+digraphs +mksession +scrollbind +X11
-dnd +modify_fname +signs +xfontset
-ebcdic +mouse +smartindent -xim
+emacs_tags -mouseshape -sniff +xsmp_interact
+eval +mouse_dec +startuptime +xterm_clipboard
+ex_extra +mouse_gpm +statusline -xterm_save
+extra_search -mouse_jsbterm -sun_workshop -xpm
System-vimrc-Datei: "/etc/vim/vimrc"
Benutzer-vimrc-Datei: "$HOME/.vimrc"
zweite Benutzer-vimrc-Datei: "~/.vim/vimrc"
Benutzer-exrc-Datei: "$HOME/.exrc"
Voreinstellung für $VIM: "/usr/share/vim"
Übersetzt: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -c -I. -Iproto -DHAVE_CONFIG_H
-O2 -march=x86-64 -pipe -U_FORTIFY_SOURCE -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=1
Linken: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -L. -Wl,-O1 -rdynamic
-Wl,-export-dynamic -Wl,--no-undefined -Wl,-E -Wl,-O1 -L/usr/local/lib
-Wl,--as-needed -o vim -lSM -lICE -lXpm -lXt -lX11 -lXdmcp -lSM -lICE
-lm -lncurses -lelf -lnsl -lacl -lattr -lgpm -ldl -Wl,-E -Wl,-O1
-Wl,--as-needed
-L/usr/lib64/perl5/5.16.3/x86_64-linux-thread-multi/CORE -lperl -lnsl
-ldl -lm -lcrypt -lutil -lpthread -lc -L/usr/lib64/python2.7/config
-lpython2.7 -lpthread -ldl -lutil -lm -Xlinker -export-dynamic -Wl,-R
-Wl,/usr/lib64 -L/usr/lib64 -lruby19 -lpthread -lrt -ldl -lcrypt -lm
-L/usr/lib64
- --
I'd like to send you encrypted mails. So please just ask :-)
Ich würde auch gerne verschlüsselte Nachrichten senden. Sprich mich
einfach drauf an :-)
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--
Kerneels Roos
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Tel: +27 (0)811 2108
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Skype: cornelis.roos
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