Today's Topic Summary
Group: http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs/topics
Quadra 700 [23 Updates]
Mac IIci floppy [2 Updates]
Quadra 700
Robert Hesson <[email protected]> Jan 05 04:02PM -0600
I have a quadra 700 that I intend to use in a friendly wager against
a friend... We read an article about a golf pro using 20 year old
equipment to see how much golf technology has changed.
I wagered I could survive a week with my quadra 700 (which I still
use for games, etc) and he said he could survive with his wintel 486
for a week.
I plan to use it for actual work... I have office installed, I have
email figured out, and I still have old versions of photoshop and
illustrator so I don't need to go back to my new Mac for anything...
Only problem is what can I use for a web browser that will sort of
work well now days? I have a 4 gig hard drive and 68mb ram so
everything runs well... Just need to solve this Internet browsing
problem.
Any ideas for what I could do?
Sent from my iPhone
David Iwanicki <[email protected]> Jan 05 05:16PM -0500
Classilla?
Sent from my iPhone
Sarah Crabbleapple <[email protected]> Jan 05 05:31PM -0500
What OS are you running? I've taken a 3400 running 7.1 online with a
very
old IE and a Lombard with Classilla under OS9. Both were much
happier with
mobile versions of sites, obviously.
labor stoltenhoff <[email protected]> Jan 05 11:36PM +0100
hi robert.
i've had a similar idea and so i arranged a second workspace with a
quadra 700, too ;-)
the 950 would be more powerful for graphic stuff, but it's too loud
(for 2012-ears).
everything is fine, but surfing is'nt fun with a 68k-machine. i'm
using wannabe for „fast“,
text-only searches and icab 2.99 for visual browsing.
best regards,
jan
Am 05.01.2013 um 23:02 schrieb Robert Hesson:
Charles Lowndes <[email protected]> Jan 05 10:36PM
Classilla is a winner, I have mine set to emulate iOS browsing
rather than the default Nokia. Works well.
Sent from my iPad
Robert Hesson <[email protected]> Jan 05 04:43PM -0600
System 7.5.5. I have another external drive running 8.1, but it runs
best with 7.5.5.
Sent from my iPhone
James Fraser <[email protected]> Jan 05 03:26PM
-0800
Hello,
> System 7.5.5.
> I have another external drive running 8.1, but it runs
> best with 7.5.5.
I'm sorry to hear that, seeing as how 8.5 seems to be the bare-bones
minimum that Classilla will run under, with 9.1. being the
recommended minimum:
>Classilla requires any Power Macintosh with at least 64MB of RAM
(virtual >or physical), 50MB of free hard disk space and MacOS 8.6
or higher. A G3 >processor with 128MB of physical RAM and OS 9.1 is
the recommended >minimum. (Although Classilla will run on OS 8.5,
due to various bugs in >that version we strongly advise updating to
OS 8.6.)
http://www.floodgap.com/software/classilla/releases/
Is your 700 stock? Or does it have a PPC upgrade installed? If the
latter, you -might- try running Classilla following the advice for
low memory:
http://www.floodgap.com/software/classilla/releases/#lowmemory
Does the wager start next week? I ask because if you have a couple
of days to prepare, you might try the LEM Swap List and see if
anyone is willing to sell you a PPC upgrade (I have no idea how rare
they are/n't).
Not sure if you want to sink any money into the machine, though.
Best,
James Fraser
Robert Hesson <[email protected]> Jan 05 06:31PM -0600
I don't think the quadra can run anything over 8.1? Never tried
though.
Wager starts in two weeks.
I've had the machine since 1993 and don't think there is too much
left to add to it.
It currently has:
Radius VideoVision Studio NuBus video editing card.
FWB scsi jackhammer NuBus card
68mb ram
2mb VRAM
Apple adjustable keyboard (with pads and number pad) original bus
mouse
Apple 16" color display
Apple external cd 300e caddy cd rom
Sonnet quad doubler.
Apple color onescanner
Iomega zip 100 drive
Syquest ez flyer 230
Iomega Jaz 2 GB
It runs very well - other than the web browser issue.
I still use it for work stuff now and then... Like working with
fonts (fontographer)
Sent from my iPhone
Scott Holder <[email protected]> Jan 05 07:57PM -0500
I tended to keep both Netscape 4 and the last 68k version of iCab on
my
68k boxes. Both of them I'd keep Javascript disabled. A lot of mobile
sites worked fine, and it was somewhat usable. With Javascript enabled
they tended to either crash a lot, break websites worse, or just stall
the whole machine for minutes at a time. iCab looked better and tended
to do sites better when it worked, but it was slower and crashier.
What
tended to happen was iCab would lock up the whole machine for several
minutes while rendering, while Netscape 4 would take longer to render
but leave the system functional.
I have to say that if your buddy is a computer guy, you may be in for
some trouble. A 486 even on Windows 98 will still run versions of
Firefox and Office XP new enough to interoperate with modern stuff
completely fine, at a decentish speed. There are even addons for
Office
XP to let it read/write the new docx/xlsx/etc formats used by newer
versions of Office. Windows 2000 can be run on a 486, which opens up
even more options. With Linux...
I love the idea though, and hopefully you can pull it out!
Scott
On 1/5/2013 7:31 PM, Robert Hesson wrote:
Robert Hesson <[email protected]> Jan 05 07:13PM -0600
Good ideas Scott, I will give them a try.
I thought I might be over a barrel, but his 486 is a 33mhz DX
running NT 3.51 I don't think he could even install windows 98.
Also, we agreed we would have to run the same versions of software
for our common tasks... So that means office 4.2.1 (word 6, excel 5
I believe and PowerPoint 4... Which I am sure neither of us will use)
I also have Microsoft project, so does he. Were both using Eudora
for email.
We both have a crap load of games, but we are not counting those.
I wanted to use my Quadra 840av, but that machine is so stacked
compared to his, we settled on the quadra 700. I have a power mac
8500 as well, but with a 500 MHz g3 board, that's not even close to
fair.
For whatever reason, I keep going back to the quadra 700. Maybe I'm
sentimental... It was my first Mac.
Sent from my iPhone
Scott Holder <[email protected]> Jan 05 08:27PM -0500
Ah, NT 3.51. That'll complicate things a bit, since about all it has
easily is Netscape 4 and the 16 bit version of IE5. Although if you're
clever enough, it is possible to run Firefox 2.x on it. But
hopefully he
won't figure that out :)
I think my 840AV was my favorite Mac just for the sake of its
uniqueness
and interestingness. Right now it's waiting for me to find time for
recapping. It's having sound and SCSI problems. I'll get around to it
someday.
Scott
On 1/5/2013 8:13 PM, Robert Hesson wrote:
David Iwanicki <[email protected]> Jan 05 08:29PM -0500
OS 8.6 requires a PowerPC processor, so that's that.
IE is gonna be your best bet, and NT 3.51 is going to have a similar
vintage IE with the same struggles rendering modern web pages.
Sent from my iPhone
James Fraser <[email protected]> Jan 05 05:44PM
-0800
Hello,
> I don't think the quadra can run anything over 8.1? Never tried
though.
Yes, apparently 8.1 is the cutoff (at least, according to the spec
sheet it is). A PPC upgrade would presumably let you go beyond that.
It sounds as though you might need to become acquainted with Linux:
http://www.anytux.org/hardware.php?system_id=853
...in a hurry if you want to win your bet. Perhaps someone on the
list is running Linux on a Quadra and can speak to that?
Should you want to give it a go on your own, this site:
http://mac.linux-m68k.org/
...seems to have everything you need to get started in the way of
downloads.
Best,
James Fraser
Robert Hesson <[email protected]> Jan 05 07:45PM -0600
He might be. He is a system engineer for Microsoft. (And a Mac user
at home, I might add!)
We might have to stipulate to allowing Internet browsing on our iPads.
Sent from my iPhone
David Iwanicki <[email protected]> Jan 05 08:46PM -0500
If he goes Linux, the 486 will have the advantage...
Sent from my iPhone
Scott Holder <[email protected]> Jan 05 08:49PM -0500
On 1/5/2013 8:44 PM, James Fraser wrote:
> It sounds as though you might need to become acquainted with Linux:
> http://www.anytux.org/hardware.php?system_id=853
> ...in a hurry if you want to win your bet. Perhaps someone on the
list is running Linux on a Quadra and can speak to that?
Actually, I have a LC475 running Debian right now and... well, let's
just say it's an exercise in possibility. The main issue is disk
access
is very, very slow. I actually do have Firefox (3.5, I think?) running
on it, but it takes a good couple or three minutes to even start up,
much less even try to display anything. There's also something wonky
with the display colors where the colormap isn't quite right. And I'd
shudder to even think about any sort of office program on it.
That said, 68k Linux has come a long way since I originally
installed it
and there are many newer kernels and userspace things. I'm on the
Debian
m68k (Motorola 68k in this case, so Amiga, Atari, etc too) and it's
made
a lot of progress in the last year. It'd be interesting to try anyway.
Scott
Robert Hesson <[email protected]> Jan 05 08:01PM -0600
What if we both went to Linux?
We both agreed to the operating systems we were running when we
stopped using these computers on a daily basis...
I have another LaCie external hard drive I could install Linux on
B&D give this a try though... Very interesting.
Sent from my iPhone
James Fraser <[email protected]> Jan 05 06:12PM
-0800
Hello,
>He might be. He is a system engineer for Microsoft. (And a Mac user
at >home, I might add!)
It's odd the number of people who develop software for PCs that
insist on using a Macintosh for their personal stuff. ¬_¬
> We might have to stipulate to allowing Internet browsing on
> our iPads.
Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't strike me as a particularly
worthy bet. "All the way or not at all," I say. :p
Presumably you and/or your friend are going to blog about this
experience somewhere? So long as there are no "outs" like the above,
it might make for interesting reading.
Otherwise, I just don't see the point if you're going to allow the
use of 21st century devices to help either/both of you get through
the week. It's your bet, though. [shrugs]
Best,
James Fraser
Robert Hesson <[email protected]> Jan 05 08:35PM -0600
James your right...
It's a week. We will tough it out.
I made a fortune off my quadras and he did a job with his PC. (I
also spent a fortune on my quadras... Not so much for him.)
I understand why he has a Mac at home... He spends 60-70 hours a
week mopping up other people's windows messes, so when he gets home
he isn't interested fighting with a PC. So he claims.
With that, I threw out there that the Mac was better and the debate
was over. Obviously that wasn't the core of the wager, but still had
to throw it out there.
We had not considered blogging about this, but that might be a very
interesting thing to do as well. I'm sure there may be a lot of
people that would be interested in that.
Sent from my iPhone
Gregg Eshelman <[email protected]> Jan 05 08:39PM -0800
> Just need to solve this Internet browsing problem.
> Any ideas for what I could do?
iCab 2.9.9 68K http://www.icab.de/dl.php
That's the newest browser there is for 68K Macs. Requires Mac OS 7.5
through 8.1
If you have RAM Charger and RAM Doubler (only use it's virtual
memory, turn compression off) on your Mac, you'll have a much more
pleasant time of retro computing.
As for your friend, if he has Win 98se he could use Opera 10.10
(newer versions have been made to work but have issues with JAVA)
and official support went up to 10.63 for Windows Me. Whether or not
you mention that to your friend is up to you. ;-)
On golf equipment, a few years back while waiting in some office, I
read an article (in a golf magazine of course) where a wide range of
drivers were tested - from old antique clubs up through the newest
legal and competition illegal clubs.
The best of the old wood drivers (actually made of wood) overlapped
the worst of the modern metal and other materials "woods" in driving
distance and accuracy. Of course the illegal clubs with coefficients
of restitution higher than the rules allow mostly blew everything
else away - though some supposed "superclubs" were out shot by the
best of the legal ones.
Gregg Eshelman <[email protected]> Jan 05 08:52PM -0800
--- On Sat, 1/5/13, labor stoltenhoff <[email protected]>
wrote:
From: labor stoltenhoff <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Quadra 700
To: [email protected]
Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 3:36 PM
hi robert.
i've had a similar idea and so i arranged a second workspace with a
quadra 700, too ;-)the 950 would be more powerful for graphic stuff,
but it's too loud (for 2012-ears).everything is fine, but surfing
is'nt fun with a 68k-machine. i'm using wannabe for „fast“, text-
only searches and icab 2.99 for visual browsing.
------------
Yup, network performance is going to be the bottleneck, even if you
have an Asante 10/100 NuBus network card to install, the NuBus can't
fully exploit the 100 megabit speed.
On your friend's PC, if it has PCI slots, it can use the full
capacity of 100 megabit ethernet but the 486 CPU can be the
bottleneck unless it's one of the last and fastest versions.
One thing Windows 9x and later has over Mac OS 9.2.2 and older is
the ability to run more than one network protocol on multiple
interfaces at the same time. IIRC Windows 9x and Me can run up to 6
network interfaces, and switch data transfer amongst them without
user intervention. I don't know what the limit is on the number of
protocols, or if there's a limit.
Without 3rd party software, ye olde Mac OS can do one protocol on
one interface. For a simple internet connection that's all you need,
but when you need to use a different interface or protocol you have
to go to the control panel and manually switch it - though unlike
Win 9x and Me you don't have to reboot the Mac after any change in
the network setup. (I suppose that's why Windows was made to support
so much network stuff at once, get it all set up and leave it alone.)
When I was sharing between a Mac and Windows I needed more than one
protocol running on Ethernet, so I had to use DAVE, which also
handled the other incompatibilities Bill and Steve stubbornly
refused to do anything about. "We're going to have AppleShare Client
for Windows 95. (But not really, not sorry about that either.)"
Gregg Eshelman <[email protected]> Jan 05 08:59PM -0800
> have a couple of days to prepare, you might try the LEM Swap
> List and see if anyone is willing to sell you a PPC upgrade
> (I have no idea how rare they are/n't).
Hey now, if he gets to use a PPC 601 upgrade then the other guy gets
to drop in a PODPV563 or PODP5V83 aka Pentium OverDrive 63 or 83
Mhz, assuming the CPU socket has the extra ring of holes for it.
Intel promised the POD for a long time, delayed and delayed, nearly
got fined by the Federal Trade Commission for not producing it, then
released it in a pair of rather limpy, obsolete versions that were
rather slow compared to anything else new on the market. Same deal
with the Pentium Overdrive for Pentium Pro and how Intel hobbled it
to only working as single or dual, ensuring it wouldn't be used in
quad or higher P-Pro systems.
Sarah Crabbleapple <[email protected]> Jan 06 12:00AM -0500
One of mine is haunted by the ghost of AOL past and reverts to those
network settings every reboot. Evil, I tell you, evil!
