Gena, I happily support those who can get the exemption but it's important
people do know where they stand legally as there will be those on the list
that have gotten the impression it's a legal right and therefore kick up a
fuss and ptentialy try to take things further. Of course that may lead to
embarressment and frustration. I don't think anyone is trying to be
negative. As for Apple arguing anything, I doubt that will happen as it
would cost them time and money along with a lot of stress with HMRC. The
fact the device was without a screen reader for so long and as a huge
majority of it's users are sighted I doubt very much HMRC would accept that
it's original intended purpose was for the use of disabled people. I'm not
100% sure but I think it has to be soely for the use of disabled people for
the exemption to apply.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: Louise Redsull
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:43 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: You can by apple products in the UK VAT free if your blind.
Hi Gena,
This issue is very interesting. The thing which confuses me is the
discrepancies between stores. I tried the Milton Keynes store the other day
and they brought down the documentation and could not identify this
exemption. They listed exemptions for Nil VAT which included being a member
of the forces from overseas or to buy medical equipment, being a charity
also makes you exempt.
I have no problem with people who have been lucky enough to get the vat
discount though do feel it should be a policy across all apple stores rather
than a postcode lottery.
Jmo,
Louise.
-----Original Message-----
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Georgina Joyce
Sent: 25 December 2012 11:29 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: You can by apple products in the UK VAT free if your blind.
Hello,
It is a nice one for lawyers to argue about. I guess Apple could argue that
4.5.2 was applicable. How does anyone know what the original intention was?
What concerns me is that some potential recipients on this list and the
access UK list are finding it difficult to accept. Surely, we should be
helping each other and share the names of those stores that provide the
exemption. Whether in the course in time they all do or if it's at the
discretion of each manager, I don't know. But good luck to all those who
have received it. Regent Square, Belfast and Trafford Centre.
Let's just stop quoting legal stuff and support our fellow VIP in accessing
IOS devices. After all, that is what this list is for.
Gena
On 25/12/2012 21:25, Peter Holdstock wrote:
Hi, appologies as the only messages I've seen on this subject are
those below. But I thought this might clarify the fact that Apple
products wouldn't be covered for zero vat as they weren't specifically
designed for disabled people. The link to the page on the HMRC site is
below.
4.5 Other equipment and appliances “designed solely” for use by a
disabled person
4.5.1 General
You can zero rate the supply to an eligible customer as detailed in
paragraph 3.1 of any other equipment and appliances that have been
designed solely for use by disabled people.
It is not sufficient for zero-rating that the equipment or appliance
is merely destined or intended for use by a disabled person, or is
mainly purchased by disabled persons. For example, general purpose
equipment such as most computer hardware, ordinary or orthopaedic
beds, orthopaedic or reclining chairs may benefit a disabled person,
but are designed for general use or for use by disabled and able
bodied people alike. Such products are not eligible for relief.
Equipment which has been designed solely for use by a disabled people
will remain eligible for relief even though they are available to be
purchased by people who do not have a disability. VAT relief will
however only apply to supplies which are made to eligible persons or
bodies as detailed in paragraph 3.1.
4.5.2 Meaning of “designed solely for use by a disabled person”
This means the original intention of the designer was to produce
equipment or an appliance designed solely to meet the needs of persons
with one or more disabilities. The design must succeed in that the
product does in fact meet the needs of disabled persons. There are a
number of conditions which may, but do not invariably result in
disability - such as:
◾ asthma;
◾ psoriasis; and
◾ dyslexia.
Equipment which meets the needs of people with such a condition will
only qualify for zero-rating if designed solely for the purpose of
meeting the needs of disabled sufferers of the condition.
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.p
ortal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageImport_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000184&p
ropertyType=document
Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNav
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 4:45 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: You can by apple products in the UK VAT free if your blind.
Laura,
Conflicting is not the word for it…
I personally myself went into Apple Regents Street London, and bought
4 iPad's, 3 Mini's and a 4th Gen, and paid no VAT for any of them.
The senior cashier specifically told me that the information could be
found in the Apple Me documentation. This is apparently the system
that all Apple employees have access to, it tells them how to be a
good Apple bod.
In this document it specifically states that only phones are excluded.
Indeed, the chap showed me on his payment terminal how he could nil
rate any Mac or iPad, but, when he added an iPhone 5 that had VAT.
we could do any combo we liked, all was VAT nil rated, bar the iPhone.
He read the section out of Apple Me which points out the exclusion for
iPHones.
I am still heavily arguing now with Apple as I have always bought from
Apple online… this is not VAT nil rated nor are over the phone
purchases, which seems wrong.
Also, you can only get base models from Apple's physical stores, if
you want to upgrade the Mac hardware you cannot do this either, again,
I am arguing this… As it basically means that blind users are not
entitled VAT nil rated to better machines.
Regards,
Neil Barnfather
Talks List Administrator
Twitter @neilbarnfather
TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an
Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all
your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit
www.talknav.com
URL: - www.talknav.com
e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com
Phone: - +44 844 999 4199
On 17 Dec 2012, at 16:27, Laura <laura....@gmail.com> wrote:
Neil, when did you get this information? I've just spoken to an Apple
rep who says the terms and conditions state the exemption only
applies to computers. I'm just curious if there's been an update
recently, or if there's still conflicting info being given out.
Cheers.
Laura
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