Hmm, I don't recall ever saying the two companies were equal in their
commitment to accessibility. I was responding to someone who felt that
since some new Microsoft products for the iPhone and iPad had some
issues with accessibility that this was indicative of Microsoft's lack
of commitment to accessibility. I was further pointing out that I don't
see the need to bash another company or another company's product line.
People can point out how great Apple and the iPhone are with respect to
accessibility without running down another company.
I've never found Safari to be accessible on the Windows platform. I
haven't used it myself, but I've heard that the iCloud Control Panel has
some accessibility issues. I've also had to wait for screen readers on
the Windows platform to catch up with iTunes updates after accessibility
was broken in iTunes, and of course, iTunes didn't start out to be
accessible on Windows. Apple had to work with screen readers, who had to
work pretty hard to make iTunes accessible under Windows. I don't use
this as an example to knock Apple's commitment to accessibility though.
I do use Narrator on Windows, but for the bulk of my work, I use a third
party screen reader, such as NVDA or JAWS. It is true that these
companies work hard to provide an accessible experience for Windows and
Microsoft products, but Microsoft also has to be committed to making
their products accessible and working with the screen reader vendors.
There are plenty of applications on Windows that aren't accessible
because their developers don't make the effort to make their products
accessible. People may not like the decision, but Microsoft didn't chose
to limit Narrator's functionality in the dark. They did reach out to the
blindness community before deciding not to develop their own screen reader.
Microsoft has developed an accessibility API, participates in standard
setting bodies regarding accessibility and follows those standards with
their own products. This isn't the same kind of commitment that you see
in Apple, but it isn't the same as not being committed at all.
Every job I've had for the last 15 or so years, has required that I work
with an Office suite, including documents, spread sheets and
presentations. I've been able to perform these jobs independently with a
third party screen reader and Microsoft products. Maybe Numbers has been
accessible on the Mac that whole time, but my understanding is that it's
been challenging to use for a blind person until recently. It's not a
guarantee that a Microsoft product will be accessible, but when I hear
that we're using a new app from Oracle, Dovico or some other company, I
get pretty anxious wondering how accessible it'll be. I get a lot more
anxious than I get when I hear we'll be using a new Microsoft product.
It's true that Windows Phone isn't accessible, and Microsoft needs to be
taken to task on this. Tablets running Windows RT are accessible though,
and Narrator has been greatly improved. Tablets running Windows are
obviously accessible, and the relatively new convertible devices are
accessible and offer some great flexibility to the blind person who
wants to use a tablet, but also wants to create their content with a
full blown keyboard.
I realize each product will have their fan boys, but there are many of
us out there who are either using Windows because we like it or we need
to use it because we'd be unemployed otherwise. I don't see a need to
bash what someone else is using, especially with dated or misleading
information, just because it isn't what someone else uses.
On 04/07/2014 12:25 PM, David Chittenden wrote:
What an interesting message. Voice-Over, Apple's built-in screen reader, gives
me excellent access to a large percentage of apps on my iOS device. On my Mac,
Voice-Over gives me good access to Apple's office type apps. Apple publishes
everything needed for third-party vendors to make their apps fully accessible
should those vendors choose to do so.
As for Microsoft, I have never been able to get narrator, Microsoft's built-in
screen reader to provide anything more than some access to Microsoft's office
products. Since you have, congratulations. However, if you mean you get
excellent access using a third-party screen reader, the access is because the
third-party screen-reader manufacturer, not Microsoft, is highly focused on
accessibility of the software you are using, and places many man hours on
finding accessibility work-arounds every time a new version is released.
Fortunately, Microsoft now provides pre-release versions to said vendors so
they can, hopefully, release updated screen-reader support when the updated
product is released.
As for mobile phones, Windows Phone is completely inaccessible. Microsoft
Windows for tablet is not accessible. Only Microsoft Windows for full computers
is accessible, from what I understand. Also, though Microsoft has an
accessibility unit, it is up to each department in Microsoft as to whether they
choose to utilise the accessibility department.
No, the two companies are not equal as to their levels of commitment to
accessibility.
David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: [email protected]
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone
On 7 Apr 2014, at 16:39, Christopher Chaltain <[email protected]> wrote:
It's a good thing we don't pass judgment on Apple's commitment to accessibility
based on how well they support their applications on their competitors
platforms.
I haven't used their mobile app for the iPhone, but I have used their web
interface for Outlook on my iPhone with Safari, and I was able to do everything
I needed to do, such as move messages to folders, delete messages, reply to
messages and compose new messages.
I've recently started using Windows again for work, I'd been using Ubuntu
almost exclusively for the last three years on my previous job, so I'm not a
Microsoft fan boy by any means. I will say this about Microsoft though, every
application I need to use for my job that comes from Microsoft is accessible,
and I work in a shop that uses Microsoft products for almost everything. This
includes Outlook, Word, Excel and so on. There's no way I could do my job
without Microsoft's commitment to accessibility, and there's no other company
that offers the range of accessible programs that Microsoft does allowing
someone to even do the job that I currently have.
IMHO, there's no reason to toss off these gratuitous messages bashing other
companies. This is an list for Apple products, so nothing constructive is
served, and it just makes all of us look petty.
On 04/05/2014 04:41 PM, David Chittenden wrote:
Sounds like the level of commitment to accessibility that I have come to expect
from Microsoft.
David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: [email protected]
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone
On 6 Apr 2014, at 6:48, "Richard Turner" <[email protected]> wrote:
There has been some confusion which I may have contributed to, but also if
folks would be careful to use real app names, things would not get quite as
confused.
The app I've been talking about is "Microsoft Office Mobile" which is free
and is free for home use. It works with OneDrive (formerly SkyDrive) and
only Office 2007 and above documents that have the "x" at the end of the
file extension, like ".docx" or "xlsx", etc.
Microsoft also released "Microsoft Word for iPad" which requires an Office
365 subscription if you want to edit documents.
It is only for the iPad.
Apparently, it will also edit older .doc files.
I do not have an iPad or an Office 365 account so am hoping that Microsoft
will make the "Microsoft Office Mobile" app which works on the iPhone, iPod
Touch and iPad, fully accessible with VoiceOver.
My sighted wife can edit documents quite easily with it and VoiceOver will
read the documents, but you can't edit them with VoiceOver.
Richard
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