And I look at some of the blindness products, DAISY readers for example, and realize that if a person who is blind was having a problem figuring out the device, there is no way a sighted person can help them out, because almost none of them have visual displays. And yet here we are, helping people who see with their iPhones, etc. You would think an organization for the blind would think that a good idea. I know, he wasn't doing a political piece on who can help whom, but it is a point that is too bad he missed.
Neal -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christopher Hallsworth Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 2:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Know what you mean. I have a friend coming over next week who has recently jumped on the Apple bandwagon and acquired an iPhone 5s in Gold. She is sighted and I am more than happy to offer her tips and tricks thanks to the iPhone being an integral device for us. Christopher Hallsworth Student at the Hadley School for the Blind www.hadley.edu On 05/06/2014 20:03, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > Yes! that's what I've always meant that the IPhone integrates us > with the sighted! Once, I was talking to a sighted relative about a > certain subject, and it was me who taught him how to do on his IPhone! > What a good feeling to help out others, even though we lack the sense of sight! > > El 05/06/2014 01:56 p.m., Jane escribió: >> It's very true. >> >> I end up being contacted by sighted friends who need help fixing >> stuff on their iDevices. It's kind of scary since I am usually coming >> to this list or Twitter when I get stuck--but I can help others. And >> I don't even own an iPhone. But the devices are similar enough that I >> can talk anyone through fixing it, or at least through turning >> VoiceOver on so I can fix it for them. With some of them, I have them >> set tripple-click home so I can turn VO on and off easily. LOL! >> >> Jane >> >> >> On Jun 5, 2014, at 6:36 AM, >> Sandratomkins<[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Just a personal note here: I have a friend who has got a 5S and she >>> is getting, constantly, in trouble with it. She works in an office >>> with plenty of other people who have iPhones too! When things go >>> wrong, they try and help out: this usually leads into much more >>> trouble and generally speaking some sort of crash. at This point, >>> she brings it to me. I can always bring the phone back for her. I >>> can always do whatever it is she wanted done in the first place. But >>> here's the rub: my friend and all her co-workers are cited. Their >>> minds, put simply, are not yet attuned to the idea of smart phones >>> apart, that is, from using the camera. Whereas, I, who need all the >>> phones functionality, appear to be something of a Guru to them! So, >>> the access ability of this platform and these devices is so good >>> that I can actually do better than my average cited counterpart. I >>> am sure that this is true of most of us here on this list. >>> >>> Just my thoughts, >>> Sandy >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On 5 Jun 2014, at 09:38, David Chittenden<[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I enjoyed reading your response. >>>> >>>> Regarding the touchscreen, hand/ear coordination (haptic / >>>> auditory) coordination is often difficult for blind people to >>>> master. This appears to be because blind people are taught haptic / >>>> haptic response coordination. In other words blind people are >>>> taught to touch and feel for a tactile response. Sighted people, on >>>> the other hand, utilise haptic / visual response. Considering that >>>> touchscreen technology is now more expensive than non-touch screen >>>> with physical buttons, this interface is, and will continue, >>>> replacing the older, haptic rich environment. In fact, for the >>>> sighted, in every category / venue studied thus far, directly >>>> interactive touchscreen technology kiosks and devices reduce errors from 15%-20% to 3%-5%. >>>> So, it becomes incumbent upon us blind people to adapt if we wish >>>> to continue fully participate in modern society. >>>> >>>> As to battery life of the iPhone, if the person were to use the >>>> iPhone the way they used to use the Nokia Phone, Windows CE Phone, >>>> and/or simple and inexpensive dumb phone with limited >>>> accessibility, they would find themselves getting similar levels of battery life. >>>> When I switched to my iPhone, I noticed a marked decrease in >>>> battery life from 3 or 4 days to just over a day. I wondered about >>>> it, so switched back to the previous phone for a week. I took note >>>> of what I did and how much time I spent on each system. I then used >>>> the iPhone in the same way as the older phone, and got 4 days of >>>> battery life. Personally, I prefer using my iPhone as my portable computer. >>>> It provides me with unparalleled access across technology sectors. >>>> >>>> As for using the phone keypad, when one trains one's muscle memory >>>> to the locations of the numbers on the keypad, dialling can and >>>> does become significantly quicker. That said, practice is essential. >>>> >>>> As for the battery life of certain blindness specific products, I >>>> prefer the much increased access and higher technology of the >>>> accessible general market hitech solutions. I can do much more for >>>> a greatly reduced price. >>>> >>>> As to the frustration of learning yet another interface, in the >>>> case of the iPhone, or Android Phones for that matter, it does take >>>> longer because, not only is a person learning the interface, each >>>> blind individual is having to learn an entirely new way of >>>> interacting that he/she was never trained for when initially >>>> learning blindness skills. Therefore, the teachers of blindness >>>> skills should start teaching haptic/auditory response in order to >>>> enable better / more efficient adaptation for the blind into the >>>> modern technological world. >>>> >>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>>> Email: [email protected] >>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On 5 Jun 2014, at 17:38, "'David Goldfield' via >>>>> VIPhone"<[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Here is the article which I have just published to my blog. >>>>> >>>>> My comments on the Braille Monitor Article concerning the iPhone >>>>> Comment on My comments on the Braille Monitor Article concerning >>>>> the iPhone the June 2014 edition of the Braille Monitor contained >>>>> an article by Curtis Chong titled Knowing what Is Good about the >>>>> iPhone and What is Not.I was intrigued by the title. I have to >>>>> admit that I've become quite the Apple fanboy of late and I would >>>>> have a very difficult time in coming up with a list of ten >>>>> objections or things which are "not good" about the iPhone. In >>>>> fact, I'm having a very difficult time in coming up with a list of >>>>> one or two things which are "not good" about the iPhone. However, >>>>> no product is perfect and I can handle objectively written product >>>>> evaluations. >>>>> Unfortunately, this article was not one of them. I'm going to >>>>> reprint each of the objections stated by Mr. Chong in their >>>>> entirety, with my comments below each objection. >>>>> What Is Not Good About The iPhone >>>>> 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no >>>>> option for that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a >>>>> month. You need a data plan for the iPhone to be able to >>>>> communicate over the Internet. >>>>> Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on >>>>> the Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in >>>>> his home, he can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run >>>>> iOS and don't require an additional monthly data plan. The fact is >>>>> that any computer or device that accesses the Internet is usually >>>>> going to require you to pay for some sort of access plan. >>>>> 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the >>>>> iPhone, particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts >>>>> list. You can dial a phone number that you know much more quickly >>>>> with a keypad that has real, physical buttons. >>>>> Response: not at all. You can simply press the home button and >>>>> command siri to call any number, such as saying "call 302 >>>>> 555-1212." That's hardly what I'd call inefficient. Also, a >>>>> consumer can order screen protectors from Speeddots containing >>>>> tactile keyboard overlays. >>>>> Finally, the rivo keyboard, while insanely expensive, gives you a >>>>> keypad allowing for quick telephone entry and it also provides >>>>> keyboard commands which let you control many other functions of >>>>> the iPhone. >>>>> 3. On the iPhone touch typing for texting and email is very slow >>>>> as compared to a regular keyboard; this has been somewhat >>>>> mitigated by Braille apps, of which there are now two. However, >>>>> you should know that research has shown that, on average, a blind >>>>> person entering data using the touch-screen QWERTY keyboard is >>>>> writing at about three words per minute. By contrast, users of the >>>>> built-in Braille apps have been clocked at around 23 words per minute. >>>>> response: you can use any number of Bluetooth keyboards if you >>>>> want to compose a lengthy email or text message. For short text >>>>> messages, composing one is as quick as dictating the text to Siri, >>>>> just as you can use your voice to place a call. >>>>> 4. The iPhone is very much a technology requiring good hand-ear >>>>> coordination. People who want real buttons that they can operate >>>>> silently by touch will be very disappointed in the iPhone. >>>>> As I stated in a previous response, you can purchase affordable >>>>> tactile overlays from Speeddots. Besides, in the section in the >>>>> article covering the iPhone's strengths, it is stated correctly >>>>> that the iPhone demonstrates, with a properly designed user >>>>> interface, that blind people can successfully operate a touchscreen. >>>>> 5. Battery life for the iPhone is still an issue. You have to >>>>> charge it at least once a day--a lot more if you use GPS. >>>>> Response: yes, I long for the days when products like the Braille >>>>> 'n Speak could give us 30 hours of battery life from one charge. >>>>> However, this is a non-issue. During the day, I connect my iPhone >>>>> to my computer's USB port and when I get home I connect it to my >>>>> computer for a few hours before going to bed. Turning off >>>>> Bluetooth, if you're not using that service, and turning your >>>>> screen brightness down to zero percent will do a lot to save >>>>> battery life. Besides, it's not exactly a major inconvenience to >>>>> plug the thing into a computer or a wall outlet every night. >>>>> 6. The iPhone is not small. It is bigger than a lot of flip phones. >>>>> response: are you serious? Really, are you kidding me? My wife's >>>>> Motorola Droid Ultra has a wider form factor. The iPhone fits very >>>>> comfortably in one hand. I mean, we're not talking about a device >>>>> like an iPad or a Kindle 8.9 HDX. >>>>> 7. For a lot of people the iPhone is a lot more technology than >>>>> they want. It is not for someone who just wants a phone to make >>>>> and receive calls. >>>>> response: true, but once blind people discover that the iPhone can >>>>> act as their digital book player, restaurant menu reader, Web >>>>> browser, email client, money identifier, barcode scanner, radio >>>>> tuner, game player and object recognizer they might just want to >>>>> use it for more than just making and receiving phone calls. >>>>> 8. The iPhone is not cheap. Even with a two-year contract, the >>>>> basic unit can cost $200. The full retail price of the iPhone is >>>>> approximately $650. >>>>> I received my iPhone 5C, 32 GB version, for free if I agreed to >>>>> sign a two-year contract with Verizon, which I was more than happy >>>>> to do. Admittedly, that particular deal expired on March 31 of >>>>> this year but I have heard that at least one other carrier was >>>>> offering a similar deal. It is likely that consumers who do a bit >>>>> of searching will be able to acquire an iPhone for a fraction of >>>>> the actual cost if they are willing to sign a contract with the carrier. >>>>> 9. First-time users of the iPhone have reported initial >>>>> frustration with this powerful technology. It is not uncommon for >>>>> these people to feel as if they want to throw the phone away >>>>> during the first month. Answering calls and hanging up calls seem >>>>> to be two particularly difficult problems for beginning iPhone users. >>>>> Response: does this mean we shouldn't recommend JAWS or NVDA to >>>>> some consumers who are new to Windows because we can find a >>>>> percentage of users who experienced frustration with their screen >>>>> reader during the first few weeks or months of use. It is common >>>>> for people to find a new piece of hardware or software frustrating >>>>> or difficult to use when they're first learning how to use the >>>>> product. Yes, using a product with a touchscreen is a very >>>>> different way of interacting with a device and frustration can >>>>> occur. This is true, by the way, with sighted consumers as well as >>>>> blind consumers so this really is a very silly objection. >>>>> 10. The iPhone requires a fair amount of dexterity and the ability >>>>> to tap quickly. People who have motor issues or poor dexterity >>>>> will likely not benefit from this technology. >>>>> Response: I don't believe this is correct. I'm no expert on this >>>>> but I remember reading about how the iPhone can be adapted for >>>>> consumers with difficulties with hand movement. >>>>> I acknowledge that Mr. Chong also compiled a list of many >>>>> advantages of owning an iPhone; I was amused that he listed that >>>>> one of them was that NFB Newsline was available as an app. >>>>> However, I found this list of things which were "not good" to be >>>>> misleading and an example of irresponsible journalism. Mr. Chong >>>>> is entitled to his opinions. However, the NFB is a very >>>>> influential organization and many of its members as well as >>>>> readers of the Braille Monitor take these articles very seriously >>>>> because they are being published by a well-known and >>>>> well-respected organization which claims to represent the visually >>>>> impaired. I am concerned that this article could convince many >>>>> blind people, as well as friends and family members who support >>>>> them, that the iPhone will not be a good product for them. This is >>>>> tragic, as it could potentially be responsible for deterring blind >>>>> consumers from enjoying a device whose functionality is unmatched >>>>> by any competitor. It is my sincere hope that Mr. Chong would >>>>> examine the validity or lack thereof of the objections which he >>>>> states in his article and that he would consider writing a >>>>> follow-up piece to correct these statements. >>>>> Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info >>>>> Feel free to visit my LinkedIn profile >>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my >>>>> blog http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter >>>>> http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and >>>>> Peer Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind >>>>> and Visually Impaired >>>>>> On 6/5/2014 1:13 AM, Neal Ewers wrote: >>>>>> Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some >>>>>> time. It would have been interesting if the article had been >>>>>> written by someone younger. >>>>>> >>>>>> Neal >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>> On Behalf >>>>>> Of Teresa Cochran >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't >>>>>> get one. If >>>>>> you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an >>>>>> iPad without >>>>>> a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual >>>>>> keyboards >>>>>> they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was >>>>>> the old >>>>>> method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even >>>>>> the numpad >>>>>> keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a >>>>>> number? >>>>>> What is Siri? Hmmm. >>>>>> >>>>>> I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who >>>>>> receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A >>>>>> well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me >>>>>> why they >>>>>> can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more one-on-one >>>>>> attention >>>>>> would have been a good idea. >>>>>> >>>>>> having said this, I think this article is more than a tad >>>>>> condescending, if >>>>>> addressed to most blind folks out there. >>>>>> >>>>>> Teresa >>>>>> >>>>>> "The golden age of science fiction is twelve."--Pete graham >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article >>>>>>> covering >>>>>> the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it >>>>>> would be >>>>>> very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which >>>>>> are "not >>>>>> good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. >>>>>> I plan to >>>>>> write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to >>>>>> the ten >>>>>> objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most >>>>>> irresponsible pieces >>>>>> of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, >>>>>> understand that >>>>>> this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other >>>>>> organization or even >>>>>> a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me >>>>>> because the >>>>>> NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members >>>>>> and readers >>>>>> of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it >>>>>> comes from a >>>>>> nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that >>>>>> many people >>>>>> may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone >>>>>> due to >>>>>> things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info >>>>>>> Feel >>>>>> free to visit my LinkedIn profile >>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog >>>>>> http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter >>>>>> http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and >>>>>> Peer >>>>>> Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and >>>>>> Visually >>>>>> Impaired >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the >>>>>>> viphone >>>>>> list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. >>>>>> If you have >>>>>> any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>>>>> you feel >>>>>> that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >>>>>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The >>>>>> archives for >>>>>> this list can be searched at >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>> Google >>>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an >>>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the >>>>> viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by >>>>> default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of >>>>> this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, >>>>> please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than >>>>> posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be >>>>> searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>> Google Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the >>>> viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by >>>> default. 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