I'm looking for one part (perhaps even two parts) educational and one
part get it fixed.
Fixing it could be as simple as not sending sending that traffic to
that tandem anymore. Easiest and cheapest (unless volume dictates
otherwise) way, though perhaps not the best. I've also made inquiries
to Frontier as to what services they have that could help solve this,
be it some value-add to take it to that tandem for me anyway, a DS1 to
that other tandem, etc. I've also reached out to others (including
Centurylink) for quoting out that transport. Probably need some other
paperwork as well (not sure if we have an ICA with them or not, I'm
guessing not), but I'm sure they'll tell me what I need to connect
when I ask to connect.
I'm one of those guys that likes to understand a situation vs.
outsourcing from the beginning. Sure, outsourcing may end up being the
best way of implementing it, but I can't just always take everyone at
their word and then not understand what's going on when things go
sideways.
The summary seems to be that Comcast did something wrong (or at least
unconventionally) and now I have to do extra work\expense to work
around it.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com
-------------------------
FROM: "Adam Vocks" <[email protected]>
TO: "Mike Hammett" <[email protected]>, [email protected]
CC: [email protected]
SENT: Thursday, August 30, 2018 8:04:06 AM
SUBJECT: RE: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc.
Hi Mike, if you have money to throw at the problem, I think I'd just
hire Mary to track down and fix the problem for you. She's obviously
knowledgeable, probably has enough contacts and is now familiar with
your problem.
Adam
-----Original Message-----
From: VoiceOps [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Mike
Hammett
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2018 7:17 AM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc.
1) How do I find an appropriate contact to ask?
2) From what Mary has said, Comcast is doing it wrong in my area. I
suppose it's useful to know how something is SUPPOSED to be done and
acknowledge that it very well could be very different in production.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected], [email protected],
[email protected]
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 21:04:33 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc.
<div dir="auto">The block owner often has a connection to the ILEC
tandem for their block in that range, but that's not always
necessary (I don't have any ilec FGD groups in the Chicago LATA,
so
it's not universally necessary).<div dir="auto"><br></div><div
dir="auto">The only way to know for certain is to check the LERG or
just
ask the carrier, which is what I usually do because I don't like
giving money to iconnectiv, since they tend to like to send me legally
cartoonish Cease and Descists every few years for the last
decade.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div
class="gmail_quote">On Aug 29, 2018 21:49, Mike Hammett
<[email protected]> wrote:<br><blockquote><html><head><style>p
{
margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000">So then
in
my situation:
https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&;
amp;exchange=901<br><br><br>Comcast has 815-901 as
well as
815-901-0. Verizon Wireless has 1k-8k. 9k I guess would be either
not
provisioned or default back to Comcast because they have the 10k
block.
Because they have the parent 10k block, are they then required to have
a
connection to the tandem I'm on anyway? The 1k block I now
understand could be elsewhere, but the 10k?<br><br>Interesting that
AT&T U-Verse voice isn't on legacy AT&T
infrastructure.<br><br><div><span></span><br><br>-----<br>Mike
Hammett<br>Intelligent Computing
Solutions<br>http://www.ics-il.com<br><br><br><br>Midwest Internet
Exchange<br>http://www.midwest-ix.com<br><br><span></span><br></div><br>
<hr id="zwchr"><div
style="color:#000;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:n
one;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;"><b>From:
</b>[email protected]<br><b>To: </b>[email protected],
[email protected], [email protected]<br><b>Cc:
</b>[email protected], [email protected]<br><b>Sent:
</b>Wednesday,
August
29, 2018 7:08:15 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems,
etc.<br><br><div dir="auto">Thousands blocks are basically just a
fancy
LNP operation. Your tandem homing has to follow 10k blocks, and the 1k
blocks are basically mass ported to your LRN. Even if the numbers are
usually homed a certain way because they are in a ratecenter, they
won't be in this case because they are ported numbers and supposed
to be routed to your LRN. Example would be the Detroit LATA where
there
are about 6 or so AT&T and other tandems. I'm homed off
WBFDMIMN20T. The local carrier has local/local toll trunks to me all
over the place, but all intercarrier calls and out of area calls other
than local traffic from AT&T LEC comes through my LRN 248-574-7678
off WBFDMIMN20T. This saves me from having to create FGD trunking
ports
to all the other tandems in the region, only the barely used
local/intra
trunking from AT&T ILEC, who has moved most customers to their
uverse VoIP
affilia
te here, and those don't use the local/intra trunks either.<div
dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It lowers my capex and opex
having
potentially over provisioned/underutilized trunking all over the
place,
saves numbers and decreases the need for splits and overlays, and even
saves at&t money. Only people who lose out are ribbon and
metaswitch
(and whoever supports at&ts 5ESS and EWSD deployments) on
licensing
and support costs for unneeded channels.</div></div><div
class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Aug 29, 2018
19:51,
Mike Hammett <[email protected]>
wrote:<br><blockquote><style>p
{ margin: 0; }</style><div style="font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000"><font
face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:
10pt;">"</span></font><span style="font-family: "Times New
Roman"; font-size: medium; background-color: rgb(255, 255,
255);">they give you market entry without the technic
al need
to establish extra homing arrangements that aren't beneficial to
you."</span><div><br></div><div>Could you elaborate on
that?<br><br><div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt;"><span></span><br><br>-----<br>Mike
Hammett<br>Intelligent Computing
Solutions<br>http://www.ics-il.com<br><br><br><br>Midwest Internet
Exchange<br>http://www.midwest-ix.com<br><br><span></span><br></div><br>
<hr id="zwchr" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt;"><div style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-weight: normal; font-style:
normal; text-decoration: none;"><b>From:
</b>[email protected]<br><b>To:
</b>[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected]<br><b>Cc: </b>[email protected],
[email protected]<br><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, August 29, 2018
6:05:39 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems,
etc.<br><br><div dir="auto">I've had some i
nteresti
ng arguments with other carriers regarding their obligation to
connect
to us. Oh, you aren't connected where I'm homed? Go order
connectivity then.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">They have
a
little more power to make demands when you have more than 24 standing
calls to them, but by and large with these stubborn providers we never
do, and when they have complained i've given them a location they
can install 1 way trunks to me at (as I have no desire to terminate
traffic to them directly), and they always balk and find some other
way
of dealing with it because it was all well and good until it was their
money they were spending instead of mine. The trick ends up being to
never do 10k blocks when you don't have to. Thousands blocks
aren't just great for number consolidation, they give you market
entry without the technical need to establish extra homing
arrangements
that aren't beneficial to you. Sure sometimes you're the guy
who
has to own
the 10k
block, bu<blockquote><p>That's true if the ILEC has an agreement
with the tandem provider. There
are some little ILECs that have their own tandem and refuse to use the
big ILEC tandem provider! You have to look at the routing of the ILEC
switch in the LERG to figure that out.
Mary Lou Carey
BackUP Telecom Consulting
Office: 615-771-7868 (temporary)
Cell: 615-796-1111
On 2018-08-29 11:38 AM, Paul Timmins wrote:
> You don't actually have to establish connectivity to all
ILECs
in an
> area, even if you are porting out numbers from their ratecenters.
The
> ILECs already have to have a way to reach any other tandem in the
LATA
> so as long as you have an LRN homed on A tandem in the area, and
port
> your numbers to that, you're good to go.
>
> The ILECs don't LIKE it, but if we cared what they truly
liked
we'd
> all just leave the market.
>
> On Aug 29, 2018 12:33, BackUP Telecom Consulting
> wrote:
>
> When there are multiple ILECs in a LATA like in LA - LATA 730,
you
> would
> set up an interconnection point with each ILEC. So you'd have
one for
> the AT&T areas and one for the old Verizon areas. When you
have
trunks
>
> to both carriers in the LATA, you can use your own network to
switch
> traffic from the one LATA to the other LATA, but you can't
deliver it
> to
> the ILEC and expect them to hand it off to the other ILEC. It
would
> work
> the same with the third party providers.......as long as they
have
a
> connection in both ILEC areas, then they can use their own
network
to
> deliver the traffic from the one ILEC area to the other ILEC
area.
>
> Mary Lou Carey
>
> BackUP Telecom Consulting
>
> Office: 615-771-7868 (temporary)
>
> Cell: 615-796-1111
>
> On 2018-08-28 08:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>> I thought everyone connected to the ILEC-hosted tandem
responsible
> for
>> the rate centers where the number blocks were assigned, but
that
> seems
>> to not always be the case when there are multiple ILEC-hosted
> tandems
>> in a LATA.
>>
>> -----
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>>
>> -------------------------
>>
>> FROM: "Erik"
>> TO: "Mike Hammett"
>> CC: [email protected]
>> SENT: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 7:25:40 PM
>> SUBJECT: Re: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc.
>>
>> Most providers simply connect to the tandem at the ILEC. The
end
>> office transit termination and origination cost is SO LOW
that
it
>> doesn't make since to have a switch or access point at
the
end
> office.
>> Since most things are ILEC if not all are VOIP everything is
coming
>> from a centralize switch point. Hopefully all the 1970's
billing
>> methods will disappear.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 1:00 PM, Mike Hammett
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Meaning if I thought were true? I had just assumed that
Inteliquent
>>> did have the connections to every tandem in the LATAs
they
serve,
>>> given that (my thought) that you could only port numbers
on
the
> same
>>> tandem, so universal coverage would require connections
to
every
>>> tandem. We're actually looking at someone like
Inteliquent to
> expand
>>> our footprint.
>>>
>>> So I'm supposed to be connected to every tandem in my
LATA? In my
>>> LATA, there are only two (I believe), but some LATAs
(like
Chicago)
>>> have several. I'm supposed to drag a DS1 (or use
Inteliquent, etc.
>>> if available) to connect to each one, even if I don't
provide
>>> service in the rate centers traditionally served by that
tandem? It
>>> seems like Comcast threw a dart at a dart board in
choosing
which
>>> tandem to connect to vs. going with the one that everyone
else in
>>> that town uses.
>>>
>>> So then I could port a number from any rate center in my
LATA (say
>>> Savanna) and point it to my LRN, living off of a tandem
switch that
>>> the Savanna ILEC isn't connected to (from my outside
world
>>> perspective)? Is there even the LATA constraint? Given
the
porting
>>> limitations I had experienced in the VoIP world, I
assumed
it was a
>>> tandem-by-tandem basis.
>>>
>>> So the LERG shows which tandem I need to send traffic to
if
I want
>>> to talk to them, but they could send their outbound calls
to a
>>> different tandem? My current customer complaint is for
calls that
>>> we're sending to Comcast, apparently homed off of the
other tandem.
>>>
>>> If everyone is supposed to be on every tandem, then why
can't the
>>> tandem I'm on just accept the calls I'm sending
to
Comcast, since
>>> Comcast should be there? Obviously me not being on the
other tandem
>>> would affect inbound traffic to me.
>>>
>>> Is there another service I should be paying Frontier for
to
get me
>>> to the other tandem with some value-add service? I know
CenturyLink
>>> hops through almost every town going that way (former
LightCore and
>>> others before route). Frontier or CenturyLink may be able
to get me
>>> a DS1 to the other tandem if I need that.
>>>
>>> I'm aware that I could still be completely missing
the
mark.
>>>
>>> BTW: Thanks for TelcoData. I subscribed a long time ago,
but
> haven't
>>> for many ages.
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>>> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>>>
>>> -------------------------
>>>
>>> FROM: "Paul Timmins"
>>> TO: "Mike Hammett"
>>> CC: [email protected]
>>> SENT: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 5:19:11 PM
>>> SUBJECT: Re: [VoiceOps] LNP, tandems, etc.
>>>
>>> If that were true, you wouldn't be able to use
inteliquent (et al)
>>> as your access tandem. Everyone is supposed to be
directly
or
>>> indirectly connected to every tandem in the LATA (which
you
can't
>>> independently verify, as telcodata and the LERG both show
>>> terminating tandem information to reach that end office,
not what
>>> tandems the end office is hooked to to terminate calls.
>>>
>>> On Aug 28, 2018 17:47, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>>
>>> I thought you had to be on the same tandem to port a
number, but
>>> with what our tandem operator (Frontier) is telling me,
this isn't
>>> the case.
>>>
>>> Comcast ported a number from us in town A. The LRN they
pointed to
>>> is based in town B (per TelcoData). The tandem generally
used by
>>> carriers in both towns is based in town B. Naturally, we
send
>>> traffic to that tandem.
>>>
>>> The operator of that tandem is telling us that the LRN is
actually
>>> homed off of a different tandem in our LATA (operated by
>>> CenturyLink) in town C. Unfortunately, I can't
corroborate this
>>> information with TelcoData the only rate center I see off
of that
>>> tandem in TelcoData is an AT&T town next door.
>>>
>>> Where can I read up authoritatively on the porting
requirements
> that
>>> would apply to this and related bits of info I should
know?
>>>
>>> I'm checking on our LERG access as I know that has
the
> authoritative
>>> information, but I don't have that access at the
moment. Maybe
> we're
>>> not subscribed to it.
>>>
>>> Number NPA-NXX in town A:
>>>
>>
>
https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&ex
change=991
> [1]
>>>
>>> LRN NPA-NXX in town B:
>>>
>>
>
https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&ex
change=901
> [2]
>>>
>>> Tandem in town B:
>>>
>>
>
https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DKLBILX
A50T
> [3]
>>> Tandem in town C:
>>>
>>
>
https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DIXNILX
A50T
> [4]
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>>> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> VoiceOps mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
>> _______________________________________________
>> VoiceOps mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
> _______________________________________________
> VoiceOps mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1]
>
https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&ex
change=991
> [2]
>
https://www.telcodata.us/search-area-code-exchange-detail?npa=815&ex
change=901
> [3]
>
https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DKLBILX
A50T
> [4]
>
https://www.telcodata.us/search-switches-by-tandem-clli?cllicode=DIXNILX
A50T
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