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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Batch of old reference zeners (Bob Albert)
2. fluke 332d (Ken Goodhew)
3. Re: fluke 332d (J. L. Trantham)
4. Re: Batch of old reference zeners (Andreas Jahn)
5. Re: Batch of old reference zeners (M K)
6. Re: Batch of old reference zeners (Dr. David Kirkby)
7. Re: A Fluke 732A (Charles Steinmetz)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2014 17:35:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bob Albert <[email protected]>
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Batch of old reference zeners
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I have a 3456A.? Is that good enough?
Bob
On Sunday, March 9, 2014 4:41 PM, Jan Fredriksson <[email protected]> wrote:
I have a batch of voltage references ICs on the shelf, several thousand of
each type. They all have date codes of around 1983, ie 30 years old. It
would be great to have some drift data on them.
The ones listed below are the best of the bunch.
- AS431, TO-92 and SOIC-8, 20ppm/C 120nV/sqrtHz (0.5% or 0.1%?)
- LM385Z, TO-92, 80ppm/C, 600nV/SqrtHz, 60uV, 20ppm/SqrtKhr
- LM329CZ, TO-92, 75nV/sqrtHz, 30ppm/C 7uV noise 20ppm (8ppm?) /SqrtKhr.
- AS2951/2954, SOIC-8, 20ppm/C
I am willing to send a handful (like at least 50 pcs) to anyone who can
set
up and monitor the drift of them for a few months and send me some data.
Any takers?
I will do similar monitoring myself, but would appreciate data from
others,
that's why I am doing this.
I am also building some other references to compare with, based on LTZ1000
and other zeners.
I am not asking anything in return, except that you return drift data,
measured with some decent method, ie single digit ppm stability.
If you happen to have some resistors rated like 10ppm/C or lower, surface
or hole mount, I'd appreciate some of those in return, in values 1K-10K,
but that is not a requirement.
Jan
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 12:06:26 +1100
From: "Ken Goodhew" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: [volt-nuts] fluke 332d
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Just after the groups collective opinion on the suitability of a fluke
332d
as a voltage standard for a home lab.
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2014 21:34:27 -0500
From: "J. L. Trantham" <[email protected]>
To: "'Discussion of precise voltage measurement'" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] fluke 332d
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Ken,
I think the 332D would be a good tool for calibration of DMM's, etc., but
probably a bit of an energy hog to leave turned on all the time.
What do you want to do?
For a constantly on 10 VDC reference, I would consider a 731B or 732A.
For
a 'calibrator', the 332D would be a good DC voltage calibrator up to 1100
VDC, IIRC. If you also need AC voltage, current, and resistance, consider
a
Fluke 5100B. For separate units, consider a 5200 for AC voltage and 5450
or
some individual standard resistors for resistance. If you want only DC
voltage and more stability than the 332D, consider a 5440B.
Careful, this stuff can be addicting.
Good luck.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Ken Goodhew
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 8:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [volt-nuts] fluke 332d
Just after the groups collective opinion on the suitability of a fluke
332d
as a voltage standard for a home lab.
---
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 08:12:21 +0100
From: Andreas Jahn <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Batch of old reference zeners
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hello Bob,
the instrument will be your least worries.
with 20-80ppm/K you will need a very well stabilized (<0.1K) temperature
environment for the references.
Otherwise you will not detect ageing but the temperature of your
environment.
A volt nut would only use the LM329 from the list (buried zener).
The others are bandgap references with much larger ageing drift.
But to detect ageing after some 100 hrs you will need a well stabilized
current source (< 0.1% drift during setup)
or a even better voltage source (<0.05% over temperature and ageing) and
a rather stable resistor for each reference in the setup.
If you use sockets for the references their drift will outperform the
reference drift if the board is handled (e.g. for measuring)
so you will need to have a (relay-) multiplexer for your instrument.
If you solder the references to a board you will create stress to the
device and this will give a large initial drift after soldering.
with best regards
Andreas
Am 10.03.2014 01:35, schrieb Bob Albert:
I have a 3456A. Is that good enough?
Bob
On Sunday, March 9, 2014 4:41 PM, Jan Fredriksson <[email protected]> wrote:
I have a batch of voltage references ICs on the shelf, several thousand
of
each type. They all have date codes of around 1983, ie 30 years old. It
would be great to have some drift data on them.
The ones listed below are the best of the bunch.
- AS431, TO-92 and SOIC-8, 20ppm/C 120nV/sqrtHz (0.5% or 0.1%?)
- LM385Z, TO-92, 80ppm/C, 600nV/SqrtHz, 60uV, 20ppm/SqrtKhr
- LM329CZ, TO-92, 75nV/sqrtHz, 30ppm/C 7uV noise 20ppm (8ppm?) /SqrtKhr.
- AS2951/2954, SOIC-8, 20ppm/C
I am willing to send a handful (like at least 50 pcs) to anyone who can
set
up and monitor the drift of them for a few months and send me some data.
Any takers?
I will do similar monitoring myself, but would appreciate data from
others,
that's why I am doing this.
I am also building some other references to compare with, based on
LTZ1000
and other zeners.
I am not asking anything in return, except that you return drift data,
measured with some decent method, ie single digit ppm stability.
If you happen to have some resistors rated like 10ppm/C or lower, surface
or hole mount, I'd appreciate some of those in return, in values 1K-10K,
but that is not a requirement.
Jan
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 08:00:12 +0000
From: M K <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Batch of old reference zeners
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed
Hi,
I have an 8.5 digit wavetek, and a bunch of Solartron and wavetek 7.5
digit meters, but it seems to me that doing justice to the 329
references is going to need stable wirewound or foil resistors, and a
few months will be only just long enough.
MK
On 10/03/2014 07:12, Andreas Jahn wrote:
Hello Bob,
the instrument will be your least worries.
with 20-80ppm/K you will need a very well stabilized (<0.1K)
temperature environment for the references.
Otherwise you will not detect ageing but the temperature of your
environment.
A volt nut would only use the LM329 from the list (buried zener).
The others are bandgap references with much larger ageing drift.
But to detect ageing after some 100 hrs you will need a well
stabilized current source (< 0.1% drift during setup)
or a even better voltage source (<0.05% over temperature and ageing)
and a rather stable resistor for each reference in the setup.
If you use sockets for the references their drift will outperform the
reference drift if the board is handled (e.g. for measuring)
so you will need to have a (relay-) multiplexer for your instrument.
If you solder the references to a board you will create stress to the
device and this will give a large initial drift after soldering.
with best regards
Andreas
Am 10.03.2014 01:35, schrieb Bob Albert:
I have a 3456A. Is that good enough?
Bob
On Sunday, March 9, 2014 4:41 PM, Jan Fredriksson <[email protected]> wrote:
I have a batch of voltage references ICs on the shelf, several
thousand of
each type. They all have date codes of around 1983, ie 30 years old. It
would be great to have some drift data on them.
The ones listed below are the best of the bunch.
- AS431, TO-92 and SOIC-8, 20ppm/C 120nV/sqrtHz (0.5% or 0.1%?)
- LM385Z, TO-92, 80ppm/C, 600nV/SqrtHz, 60uV, 20ppm/SqrtKhr
- LM329CZ, TO-92, 75nV/sqrtHz, 30ppm/C 7uV noise 20ppm (8ppm?) /SqrtKhr.
- AS2951/2954, SOIC-8, 20ppm/C
I am willing to send a handful (like at least 50 pcs) to anyone who
can set
up and monitor the drift of them for a few months and send me some data.
Any takers?
I will do similar monitoring myself, but would appreciate data from
others,
that's why I am doing this.
I am also building some other references to compare with, based on
LTZ1000
and other zeners.
I am not asking anything in return, except that you return drift data,
measured with some decent method, ie single digit ppm stability.
If you happen to have some resistors rated like 10ppm/C or lower,
surface
or hole mount, I'd appreciate some of those in return, in values 1K-10K,
but that is not a requirement.
Jan
_______________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 08:57:52 +0000
From: "Dr. David Kirkby" <[email protected]>
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Batch of old reference zeners
Message-ID:
<CANX10hA0RLst9fD8zknuL_oOkxZ48ukQyEJDTR0BFjUG_f5-=g...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On 9 Mar 2014 23:39, "Jan Fredriksson" <[email protected]> wrote:
I have a batch of voltage references ICs on the shelf, several thousand
of
each type. They all have date codes of around 1983, ie 30 years old. It
would be great to have some drift data on them.
Since you have so many, it would be interesting if you built up some
references, measured their stability, then shipped a random sample around
the world - perhaps to two or three time-nuts on different continents.
Then
see if the transport actually has any effect on them.
The discussions about the Fluke being shipped powered up made me think of
this one.
Of course shipping them powered up could be an additional interesting
experiment, but as I wrote before, there are issues with that, although
perhaps if the current consumption was low enough, the size of the battery
needed would be incredibly small, and one could probably chose a type for
which there is no strict regulations about carrying them.
Dave
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 08:38:15 -0400
From: Charles Steinmetz <[email protected]>
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] A Fluke 732A
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Thomas wrote:
If I send a 732A to Fluke and have it calibrated, and you stop by
with yours shortly after mine returns, has a day or so to settle,
and appear correct with my 3458A, you could then calibrate your 732A
using of mine and feel fairly confident you standard is also a few
PPM from 10 volts. Now lets stay you repeat this with another
Volt-Nut when his standard returns. You do not have documents
proving the accuracy of your standard because none of the standards
used are parts of a accredited lab,
Documentation and accreditation are two entirely different
things. In this case, the documentation would be the informal, "on
[date] I compared and adjusted this standard to Thomas's 732A that
was just back from calibration and sanity-checked with a 3458A, using
a [Fluke 845A null meter, or whatever]." Knowing the published
uncertainties of the 732A, I can even calculate the uncertainty of my
732A as of the moment of calibration, and at intervals thereafter
based on the published uncertainties.
Checking against another recently-calibrated 732A at a later date can
confirm or deny that mine remains within the published uncertainty at
that time. If it does, that fact becomes part of my (informal)
documentation. If it doesn't, the presumption is that one of the
732As is broken. We can suspect that it is mine, but we cannot know
that without further testing.
Best regards,
Charles
------------------------------
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End of volt-nuts Digest, Vol 55, Issue 11
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