Horace, T-tube was not there to collect water but it was there just that
Rossi may attach there a hose or larger container to gather overflown water.
_Obviously_ it was not in operation during the NyTeknik demonstration. MW
unit has similar setup, but it is more sophisticated and valve controlled.
—Jouni
On Sep 23, 2011 3:52 AM, "Horace Heffner" <[email protected]> wrote:
> There can be no flow into the T-tube during normal operation. Even
> if the T-tube is emptied, it obviously fills in seconds. In the
> normal running it has no effect. The video showed it sitting there
> filled. The overflow water simply flows over the top of the T-tube
> and into the hose.
>
> The water output at the hose has little meaning. That is because it
> is not possible to tell what is overflow and what is condensation.
>
> The overflow is not constant, as demonstrated by the differences in
> between the 20:50 and 21:50 readings.
>
> I must say it is of interest the wording: "21:50 Liquid water at the
> outlet was measured ...", which leaves the word "outlet" somewhat
> ambiguous. It would make no sense at all to measure overflow at the
> hose outlet though.
>
>
> On Sep 22, 2011, at 4:20 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote:
>
>> Horace,
>>
>> I think Lewan's thinking is the following:
>> - the system is more or less at steady-state
>> - the flow into the T-tube (let's call it 'outlet_overflow') was
>> (more or
>> less) constant,
>> - the liquid water coming out the end of the HOSE was then:
>> Outlet_overflow + condensation_in_the_hose
>>
>> -Mark
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Horace Heffner [mailto:[email protected]]
>> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 5:11 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [Vo]: Rossi sells home to finance demo
>>
>>
>> On Sep 22, 2011, at 1:53 PM, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
>>
>>> At 02:26 PM 9/22/2011, Horace Heffner wrote:
>>>> Lewan couldn't use it?
>>>
>>> I can't find his statement that he measured the outflow through the
>>> T-trap. I don't THINK I imagined it ....
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> I don't see how it is possible to get reasonable measurement using
>> the T-trap. If you look at the film at around 3:50 you can see the T-
>> trap is full. If you then look at 4:25 you can see the flow is very
>> fast, and could fill up the T-trap in a few seconds at most. A small
>> plastic container is being used by hand to capture the flow. Likely
>> that was later weighed.
>>
>> Here is the film URL:
>>
>> http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3264362.ece
>>
>> Here are the notes regarding water overflow:
>>
>> 20:50 Overflow was approximately 3,7 grams/s or 13 kg/hour. T2=29.3°
>> C, T3=90.3°C.
>> 20:55 Overflow decreases. T2=29.2°C, T3=93.4°C.
>> 21:50 Liquid water at the outlet was measured and found to vary
>> between 1.4 and 1.8 grams/s or from 5.0 to 6.5 kg/hour.
>>
>> So, it was not your imagination the overflow was measured. My point
>> (see below) was merely that the T-trap could not be used to make the
>> overflow measurements, at least not accurately. Measuring required
>> removing the hose and using a container to catch the flowing water.
>> Very inconvenient to do frequently. The T-trap was highly under
>> sized.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 22, 2011, at 1:26 PM, Horace Heffner wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 22, 2011, at 11:39 AM, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
>>>
>>>> At 12:18 PM 9/22/2011, Peter Heckert wrote:
>>>>> Fit a transparent silicone rubber hose to this steam outlet, so
>>>>> we can see the water overflow and remove all doubts.
>>>>
>>>> He sort-of did this for Lewan's September demo. The white
>>>> section at the outlet has a transparent T-connection. (Video
>>>> 4:22). Lewan said measuring the overflow at the T-trap gave the
>>>> same results as disconnecting the hose entirely. I don't know why
>>>> Lewan didn't measure the overflow at regular intervals.
>>>
>>>
>>> The overflow was obviously much larger than expected. It looked
>>> like the T-trap would fill in seconds. It looked like it was a
>>> closed end T. If it were an open end T then the steam would pour
>>> out as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> So .. Rossi made it available, Lewan didn't use it. Who's to blame?
>>>
>>> Lewan couldn't use it?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Horace Heffner
>> http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Horace Heffner
> http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
>
>
>
>
