OK, why can't the President of the United States make a special request to
get his long form. You say there was no legal way, but in fact there is.
Abercrombie has enough authority by himself as governor to do this. Obama
could make a 2 minute phone call and the Bither issue would be resolved once
and for all. Why not do this simple thing? Over 60% of America want it,
why not do it.
Jojo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Abd ul-Rahman Lomax" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
This should have been tagged OT from the beginning. However, changing a
subject header after it has started screws up threading, and the whole
point of my responding at all to Jojo is to keep sane information in his
threads, for future readers who find this through Google. I would never
inititate this discussion here.
At 05:21 PM 1/2/2013, you wrote:
Lomax, please read up on the case of the Nordyke twins. They were born
within a few days of Obama and they were able to obtain a long form copy
of their BC. You lie once again by claiming that there is no legal way.
I read all this months ago. Joho seems to not realize something. I
actually research what I write, when it enters controversy. I check my
facts.
Quite obviously there is, cause the Nordyke twins were able to do it.
Please my friend, stop the lies. Where is Obama's long form BC. Not
computer generated scans which are obviously fake.
Have you seen the Nordyke twin's long form BC? When was it issued?
If you haven't seen it, look at:
http://www.biasedmediaboycott.com/index.php?topic=80.0
Just the first I could find.
The Nordyke certificate was issued in 1966, you can see the date. It's a
negative copy, and I received copies like that of birth records -- my own,
for example --, it's how it used to be done, the copying machines made a
negative. So Ms. Nordyke requested a birth certificate copy in 1966, and
that is what she got. A copy of the original, the "long form." If you look
carefully at the picture, you can see the lines starting to bend from
where the original is bound in a volume, as you can see this same bending
in the long form image that has been issued by Obama.
(Looking at some of the birther pages, the arguments they come up with are
a *scream!*) Referring to the
Hawai'i later computerized their records, and started to issue short-form
certificates, with only the legally important data. Apparently getting a
long form requires special permission, and it's not clear that it's
automatic that you can get one at all. And *who* can get one? Can I write
to Hawai'i and get a copy of, say, that Nordyke BC? Or Obama's, and will
they be treated *any differently*?
(Answer: to do this I'd have to commit a crime, I'd have to impersonate
them. Or be representing them, and be able to show that. However, people
to obtain birth certificates under false pretenses. For a $10 fee, they
obviously can't do a lot of investigation! On the other hand, if they get
a letter from "Barack Obama, P.O. Box blah blah, Philippines," do you
think they'd fall for it?
Now, what Jojo had actually demanded was to see the "vault copy" itself,
not some copy on the internet. Well, did he see the Nordyke twins BC? Or
just a copy on the internet?
Now, some people may have visited Ms. Nordyke and may have seen the
certified copy. And some people have seen certified copies of Obama's
short form and the "vault certificate," the "long form." The page I
pointed to made a big fuss about how different the long form was from
Obama's short form. Much ado about *nothing*. They are quite distinct,
obviously, but the short form includes all the legally important data, and
is how Hawai'i stopped handling the vault copies. The entered the
important data into a computer, and they print copies out by computer. My
guess is that it's a secure computer system, not connected to a network,
and that the clerk issuing a BC doesn't actually look at the vault copy.
But that's a guess.
It is difficult to believe that Jojo is unaware of these arguments, unless
he's really new to the field and just has a habit of asserting what he
*just learned* as certain fact. He *has* done that, at least once, because
he acknowledged just having read it.
So what is it that Jojo is demanding, he who does not even live in the
U.S.? Does he want a courier to arrive with the bound volume? Does he want
a copy mailed to him with the certification? He has to be eligible to
recieve one, and there is a $10 fee if he's eligible. The State of Hawai'i
does not issue the original to *anyone*. It's called a "vault copy"
because that's where it's kept! And it doesn't issue certified copies
except to eligible persons. Read the application information:
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/elig_vrcc.html
Jojo has demanded to know who has seen the original long form. I gave him
a list by position or circumstance. He demanded the names. All of this
could be found in a few minutes on the internet. I gave the names of two
Hawai'ian officials who had certified that they had seen the original.
Jojo then simply claims I'm lying. But all this can quickly and easily be
verified. I found more, since I wrote that. It appears that state
Secretaries of State, having a legal need for birth information, can
request it from Hawai'i. Hawai'i does not send them the certificate, it
sends, instead, a letter under official seal and signed as a testimony
certifying as to the *information* contained in the certificate. And those
have been signed by other officials. There is actually quite a list.
And Jojo has them all be lying. What a world he lives in!
Jojo has demanded that the vault copy be shown to someone "trusted," and
he named Tea Party officials, and Ron Paul. Ron Paul has openly and
clearly rejected the birther claims, in quite the same way as I might.
"Not as far as I know." And, when questioned, he made it clear that it was
his business to know if there was something to it. Could Ron Paul see a
copy if he asked Obama nicely? My guess is that he could. But I'm not
sure. The issue for Obama would be if it was worth the effort. It may not
be. There is *zero legal necessity* for him to do it. He already bent over
backwards to handle this. He sent his personal attorney to pick up the
certified copies of the long form. What did that cost?
