"I also find many aspects of Japanese and Chinese religious distasteful, or horrifying, and I expect Robertson would, too;" and later "I expect Robertson would find them kind of creepy."
Does Jed really know me well enough to "expect" me to find certain beliefs distasteful, horrifying or creepy?
Nope. But most Western people do find them creepy, especially religious Westerners, and especially the reburial rituals. (Don't ask.)
Obviously I mean "expect" as in "presume" or "suppose," not "consider reasonable or due; obligatory or required." Let us not split hairs, hmmm???
I have spent more time in the third world than he has. I might be many things -- even religious -- but I don't view myself as naive. The word that comes to mind is patronizing.
Well, for all I know you have taken part in ritual cannibalism of the first kind. It would be unusual but not unheard of.
Jed professes to be knowledgeable about the human condition, but I find it astonishing that he does not recognize that both are a part of the human condition -- and inseparably so. They always have been and always will be.
They are not the least bit inseparable. I have zero difficulty separating them in my own mind. 70% of scientists ( http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism6.htm) and roughly half the people in Europe and Japan say they are not religious, and I believe them. Why would they lie about such a thing? If anything, you would expect people to fib in the other direction, because religion is fashionable these days.
Astronomical prediction is nothing if it is not a manifestation of science; placing flowers on graves is nothing if it is not a religious ritual and practice, both of which have been a part of the human condition from the beginning, as archeology teaches us.
Many rituals, ways of living, and institutions that have been with us since ancient times are now disappearing. Some are praiseworthy, such as self-sufficient farming. Others are dreadful, such as slavery, war, and building Pyramids in Egypt. Samurai culture lasted for a thousand years and it was central to many people's lives and ethics. It was, in many ways, a noble and praiseworthy institution. It promoted honesty, hard work, frugality, academic study, superb premodern science, and it set the stage for the rapid transformation of Japan during the Meiji era. But it vanished.
Pertinent to this discussion, I also despise the unnecessary polarization between science and religion, partly because it is logically unnecessary, but mostly because it can be hurtful -- on both sides.
Whereas I think polarization is inevitable, and I hope religion loses, and gradually fades the way Samurai culture did. People have different ideas, don't they?
Intuition is absolutely critical -- indispensable -- to the scientific process . . .
That is true. It is an important point. Intuition is also critical to the arts, and to living a happy life. But I see no reason why it should make people religious. My intuition tells me that God probably does not exist.
On the other hand, it would be silly to say that religion is without logic. One need only read anthropologists like Levi Strauss, Edmund Leech, and a myriad others to appreciate the beauty of the systems of logic the underly religious belief and behavior.
Well, I am not very familiar with theology, but I have not seen a logical basis for it. I have not looked carefully, but as I said, all the reasons in the literature appear to be logical fallacies. It is a lot like trying to track down rumors of magic magnet perpetual motion machines. The anthropology and sociology of religion is interesting but theology looks like mush to me. Perhaps I have the wrong kind of mind.
In any case, many things which are logical are also incorrect. All scientific theories which were once believed but now discarded fall in that category.
In short: It is reductionism at its worst to draw a line between scientific and religious practice. One emphasizes logic and the other intuition, but neither is possible without the other.
Most scientists practice both logical and intuitive science, but they chuck the religious part.
The interaction of our cortex with the so-called lower brain as we interpret the incredible universe of which we are a part would have it no other way.
Speak for yourself! It is not a problem with my cortex. Seriously, you seem to be asserting that everyone is religious but we just won't admit it. Do you really think half the people in Europe are lying? That's silly.
- Jed
