thomas malloy wrote:
Good suggestion. However the self-interest of the various religions get in the way. If
I can understand your feeling frustrated Ed, you can see the World deteriorating but you refuse to acknowledge the basic problem, sin. Now the matter is obfuscated by there being two forced fighting against each other.
My frustration, Thomas, is watching people use this model to explain our situation. The model has a logical conclusion which will result in war and destruction. The model concludes that only people who believe this model are correct in God's eyes. Therefore, they are justified doing anything to people who do not share this model, including working hard to bring about the "rapture".
No, the answer is a change in attitude.
No, the problem is human evil
The problem is how you define evil. The Germans under Hitler considered the Jews evil. The Moslems think the US is evil. Bush thinks Iran and North Korea are evil. Some Christians think homosexuals are evil. Everyone thinks someone is evil and thinks God agrees. To me the evil person is one who is sure they know what evil is and is willing to use their definition to kill or have killed.
If even the slightest imagination and intelligence were used, many more people could live very well in even the most populated
You're right.
countries. We do not lack space, we lack common sense.
there's no arguing with that.
If God made us, he did a lousy job.
It's not your place to criticize G-d.
Then who is allowed to criticize God? God speaks through men. How do we know that the men describing God tell the truth or are perhaps just insane, as humanity has experienced many times in the past. Is not criticizing God simply the same as questioning the message these men give us? Have not such questions been asked many times in the past, sometimes at the risk of life? Have not the answers given the present religions a better understanding of what God wants? When should we stop asking questions?
He made a lifeform that insists on believing things that are clearly in conflict with reality,
Hum, does that include things like spontaneous biogenesis? How about, the Space Brothers are here to help us? How about, all religious traditions are all equally valid paths to god?
Belief is not black and white. Some things are certain, such as the universe being made of trillions of stars, something that was not known until recently, well after the Bible was written. As for the "space brothers" the evidence for such visitation is huge, but it is difficult to accept for various reasons, rather like the approach some people take toward cold fusion. As for all religious traditions being equally valid paths to God, I doubt this is true. On the other hand, I also doubt that any tradition is the perfect approach that God demands. I think the human race is still a long way from knowing what God wants or how we should worship. I suppose you have noticed by reading history, that our understanding has improved over time. I would expect this process to continue, if we last long enough.
and will kill or give up its own life to support these beliefs.
We have an obligation to defeat human evil, and evil humans.
Yes, that is the logical extension of you model that justifies war, killing, and general destruction when it is applied to those you define as evil. Naturally, the other side defines you as evil so that no limit can be imposed on the carnage.
A lifeform, to a large extent, that lacks empathy for his own kind and for the other lifeforms made by this God.
Empathy is one of the attributes recommended by Christianity.
If this attribute were actually applied, war would be impossible. However, the attribute is overridden by the idea of evil.
A lifeform that has the conceit to believe that it is unique and will gain advantage over other individuals by using a particular worship of this imagined God.
We believe that sentient life, with free will is unique to this planetary system. As for an advantage, it's quite the opposite.
I know this is your belief, but why? What is the evidence? Even on this planet, we are learning that the dolphin may be as sentient as we are. It would seem that your belief is an example of self justification based on ignorance.
At the same time, we have the ability to discover methods to visit the stars while other people will turn this knowledge into weapons that will be used to destroy anyone who does not support their beliefs.
War making is part of the human condition. We have an obligation to defeat evil.
Yes, an obligation that justifies anything.
If you were God, would you have made such a self-destructive creature?
The problem is sin and human evil.
I agree, this is a problem. However, I define sin and evil differently than you do. Unfortunately, because I don't use God as justification for my definitions, you are free to ignore my definitions.
If you had, would you give support to individuals who had these obvious imperfections even if they attempted to worship you?
I'd separate the part of humanity which pleased me and make them holy.
Suppose the separation imposed by God is between the humans and the dolphins with the dolphins considered holy, rather than the Christians. Since you don't speak dolphin, how do you know that God is not talking directly to that lifeform? You can see the problem. Why not be humble and acknowledge that we all are still children who know very little about the world or God. Instead of insisting that you are correct, take time to learn about what God wants by observing what God does.
Regards, Ed
peat bogg wrote:
Mike Carrell wrote:
Jed and Ed have voiced eloquent laments for wild space and connection to Nature. Ironic that TV ads for automobiles seduce with the lure of access to ever more remote open space.
Their agenda is to sell automobiles.
If the population were not so high, the problems described here would not exist.
It might make more sense to start thinking about how to lower the population of the world rather than about how to build more power plants.
The population size problem is about to correct itself.
