Re: OT: Bird Flu and Vitamin C

[Jones Beene]

There is a huge (and possibly underappreciated) implication of Dr. Cathcart's influenza claims - relative to Vitamin C and influenza: In his 1981 paper, "Titrating to Bowel Tolerance, Anascorbemia, and Acute Induced Scurvy" ... the claim is made that massive doses of Vitamin C are tolerated in infection- situations where the C is rapidly depleted by the disease itself - and that these diseases induce scurvy..." OK, in case you didn't "get it" ....and "it" is partly semantic... when one get's a life-threatening form of flu - the death istself will be from "scurvy" - since the virus itself lacks the genertic mechanism to actually halt life processes in cells. The virus depletes Vitamin C and that next depletes collagen, and if it (collagen) is not replaced fast enough - the victim essentially dies from scurvy - i.e. hemorrhaging (bleeding) to death. Although this may be "just" a semantic distinction - I found it hard to believe at first, because the medical profession igores even the semantic implications, and has never been a big fan of vitamin therapy (in general)... but they are the experts, correct?   Nevertheless, I wanted to do a more thorough internet search on the connection of flu with scurvy - and in keeping with Stephen Lawrence's observation that: "But then, what about that 1918 flu? Why was it so deadly? Well, it was a hemorrhagic disease -- alveolar hemorrhage was one thing it caused, and that's a big problem for the victim. It also caused a raging fever, and it caused a wicked bad headache." Note these are prime symtoms of scurvy. Scury is the prototypical hemorrhagic disease, but then again the word "scurvy" is more about symptoms than a disease agent, right? .   Before the Lind-Lime citrus treatment, in naval history we find that on every long voyage scurvy would strike. DaGama lost 100 of 160 men to scurvy during one ten-month voyage. Soldiers bogged down in European war often suffered the same fate: wounds that wouldn't heal, muscle pain, headaches, bleeding gums, spitting blood, abnormal fatigue, kidney failure, blood in urine, pneumonia and, finally, death. Curious that the symproms of scurvy... and the more deadly forms of flu are almost identical.   Did many - even most -of the 1918 victims really die of scurvy? Well, yes, and that is not really controversial on one basic level, more semantic than explicative, since "scurvy" is really about the inevitable symtoms of Vitamin C deficiency. But how does influenza itself cause this deficiency in Vitamin C and do the victims die of scurvy?  Here is some technical information - which makes this Cathcart proposition (that in flu, one dies from scurvy) seem likely. Vitamin C (ascorbic acid), a reducing agent, is necessary to maintain the enzyme prolyl hydroxylase in an active form, most likely by keeping its iron atom in a reduced state. Note the improtance of *iron* here and the iron-hemoglobin red blood cell connection... and also in the combined collagen connection. Collagen is what keeps the blood vessels healthy and intact under the pressure of "pumping". When collagen is depleted we essentially bleed to death from too much blood "pressure" on weakened blood vessels. And it all goes back to Vitamin C.   The precursor molecule to the protein collagen, "procollagen," contains an unusual amino acid sequence in that every third amino acid is a glycine and contains a high frequency of two amino acids not found in any other proteins - hydroxyproline and hydroxylysine. These latter two amino acids are converted from proline and lysine, respectively, after the procollagen molecule has been synthesized. The hydroxylation of proline and lysine in procollagen is carried out by the enzyme prolyl hydroxylase using vitamin C as a cofactor.   Without the vitamin C cofactor, the conversion is extremely slow and blood vessels cannot be "repatched" fast enough with new collagen. IOW the flu is not attacking healthy cells and killing them but it is binding to vitamin C selectively, as the is the "other" use which the body makes of this vitamin - and depleteing it from it use with collagen. A vitamin C deficiency results in an underhydroxylation of proline and lysine in collagen which results in a lower melting temperature of the resulting collagen fibers which causes a breakdown of the protein collagen needed for connective tissue, bones and dentin, the major portion of teeth. Collagen is a cementing material that binds cells together, and is an essential connective tissue protein in the body. Whenever the body is wounded, collagen glues the separated tissues together to form a scar. A lack of collagen causes the walls of the body's blood capillaries to break down and hemorrhaging occurs in cells throughout the body. When capillaries lose the "glue" that holds them together, symptoms of scurvy appear.   It is looking to this non-medically-trained observer like Dr. Cathcart's flu ==> scurvy connection is right-on. Perhaps it is only part of the bigger picture - but if your physician does not mention massive vitamin C therapy for flu, either alone or in addtion to anti-virals - in my opinion that is negligent, and tantamount to malpractice, unless of course there is some evidence in the literature which is contrary to Cathcart's claims.   Jones