Bob, The velocity of sound within metals is quite high at 4900 meters per second in a thin rod of nickel. Travel time to pass, for instance 10 nanometers, would be approximately 2 picoseconds. That would suggest that the period of a half resonator structure could be around 4 picoseconds which is 250 gigahertz. This frequency would be in the very far infrared region. Mechanical resonances can occur at harmonics of the fundamental, so I suppose the far infrared frequency range would be supported.
Of course mechanical resonances typically have large 'Q' values, easily several hundred. So, the peak stored energy in a cycle can be very high relative to the drive energy due to potential LENR activity if it can be captured within the resonator. Would there be sufficient energy translating back and forth through the active material to cause additional LENR actions to occur, I don't know. But, at least a mechanism of this sort would not generate radiation of dangerous electromagnetic form unless some coupling into the infrared electromagnetic zone becomes dangerous. If the application of a 'Q pulse' does in fact lead to measurable LENR response as has been reported, then a mechanism that relies upon phonic resonances should remain upon the table. A process of this type would be expected to be highly critical due to the sharp characteristics of mechanical resonances. Also, I have personally worked with systems that rely upon mechanical coupling to magnetic fields such that energy can be transferred between them. A great example of the application of this coupling means can be found at the exit gates located at many grocery and drug stores. Dave -----Original Message----- From: bobcook39923 <bobcook39...@gmail.com> To: David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com>; vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 10, 2017 1:11 am Subject: RE: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway Dave— I think the reaction time for the mechanism you suggest if too long to explain the results of the “run-away” phenomena. It seems to me that an entire coherent system must change in a very short instant with the appearance of phonic energy (high orbital valence electron spin) evenly spread through the entire coherent system. I would like to believe that angular momentum of the system is conserved. It may be that a strong magnetic is the coupling force that assures that the angular momentum is conserved in the production of appropriate EM radiation carrying angular momentum away from the remaining coherent system before disintegration occurs. Bob Cook From: David Roberson Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 6:01 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway Brian, The Manelas device is an interesting subject that I would like to explore further. Do you know whether or not the project is actively being pursued at this time? Of course I am skeptical of any free lunches, but open to possibilities. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Brian Ahern <ahern_br...@msn.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Thu, Feb 9, 2017 6:40 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway David, I like your admission that we are brainstorming. I had several mentors in the last 20 years. One of them was Henry Kolm, Wayland MA. He was a co-founder of the National Magnet Lab at MIT. He is deceased, but in 2009 he believed that at one time he was as knowledgerog ross noable on magnetism as any person in the world. He confided to me in 2010 that Magnetism was largely not understood. There was so very much unknown. He was in awe of the subject. I had the good fortune to learn about the source of ferromagnetism in materials and how they are related to specific electron orbital topologies. This is not known or discussed anywhere. I have found that these topologies are affected by phonons as well as photons. That is why I am fascinated by LENR. The Manelas energy output with ferromagnetic ferrite cores is also fascinating and not understood by anyone yet. From: David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 6:12 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway Bob, When you mention the attenuation coefficient for waves I think it should be pointed out that the original energy of the phonon is preserved. By this I mean that the sonic energy is converted into some other form such as heat which I think of as just uncoordinated sound waves that are randomly distributed. I also assume that the original sonic waveform translating throughout the material undergoes reflections at the edges, etc. until it becomes unrecognizable as anything other than overall random heating. It seems logical that an individual sonic disturbance originating at some point within the NAE would propagate into three dimensions and its initial energy would spread out into an ever wider wave until reflections hide its identity. Of course some might argue that each phonon contains a fixed amount to energy that propagates away from its point of origin like a particle. If the particle model is used I believe that the attenuation coefficient would not fit. Otherwise a fractional phonon would exist instead of a fixed energy particle. If we consider a coherent pulse of phonons propagating as a coordinated group along one axis like a plane wave then some interesting characteristics originate. Perhaps the instantaneous peak pressure causes new LENR reactions to occur which then generate additional coherent phonons that add to the original traveling wave. Think of how a laser pulse builds up in magnitude as it travels through the lasing material. After enough LENR reactions add together we might have enough sonic energy to crater the edge of the reactive metal matrix. I am thinking of how a shaped charge can penetrate a thick metal shield causing it to splinter on the far side. If behavior of the type I am suggesting actually happens then the bulk of the material as well as its physical shape and internal structure would be important considerations. The bulk is important because the sonic wave gains energy as it passes through, similar to lasing. The physical structure comes into play as the waves undergo multiple reflections at the edges. This is related to the gross mechanical resonances of the material. The internal structure such as dislocations would likely cause the traveling waveform to disperse to some degree leading to disruption of the pressure wave. There is some support for a sonic related LENR effect as seen in one reportedly successful device that uses a large magnetic shock generated by a carefully shaped waveform. Please realize that what I am discussing is more of a brain storming exercise intended to generate additional thoughts and comments from other vortex-l contributors. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Bob Higgins <rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Thu, Feb 9, 2017 3:37 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway The problem with the phonon is that its wavelength is extremely short. The attenuation coefficient for waves, in general, is typically quoted in dB/wavelength; and nature abhors a too small value for such a number. Hence you only have to propagate a limited number of wavelengths and the energy in the wave dissipates. Also, the greatest amount of energy is deposited closest to where the wave originated. If phonons were being generated as the LENR energy output, the energy would dissipate close to where the phonons were being created. If the NAE was of limited size, how could the phonons provide any significant heat to the whole reactor without the NAE being so hot it would long before evaporate? Peter Hagelstein's answer to this is that there is no NAE - the reaction is completely distributed to start with. Because the hypothetical LENR phonons would be generated in a distributed fashion, the heat becomes distributed. Thus, if you are presuming the heat carrier is phonon, then you are simultaneously rejecting the notion of the pointillistic NAEs. Sometimes the tiny volcano eruption is seen in the surface of a LENR producing host metal, where it appears that evaporation has occurred. Yet, the heat energy contribution from one such micro-eruption is small, and for the LENR energies being observed, the surface would have to be truly covered with these features afterwards - they would appear to be an obvious smoking gun (a pun). With the rarity of these observed micro-eruptions, one would have to believe that if LENR occurs in small point-like NAEs, the heat produced must be deferred to regions somewhat remote from the source. The micro-eruptions tend to support the idea of a small NAE, but the fact that the surface doesn't become completely covered with micro-eruptions suggests a heat carrier capable of delivering the heat to the greater apparatus. On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net> wrote: In nuclear fission, the active particle which propagates the reaction is of course the neutron. The identity crisis that we have dealt with in LENR from the start becomes evident when we try to single out the active particle or pseudo-particle, which is the most basic agent that propagates and continues the reaction (in a situation such as "heat-after-death" or the thermal runaway). If nuclear fusion was indeed the source of energy of a runaway or meltdown reaction (and close to a dozen have been reported) then we should be able to identify an anomalous agent of some kind, but it is not gamma radiation or neutrons, so we look for something completely new. Beta particles (fast electrons) and alpha particle can also be ruled out due to proportionate lack of secondary radiation (bremsstrahlung). Yes, there appears to be a tiny amount of all, or any, of the above in LENR at various times, but not coming close to accounting for the emergent thermal gain of a runaway. This is gain far above chemical and far below nuclear, which can cause a large amount of stainless steel to melt, as happened at Thermacore but with no residual radiation. Thus the choices for the active agent in LENR are narrowed primarily to the phonon, for those who follow some version of the Hagelstein theory, or to EUV photons for those who follow Mills, or both. Holmlid has not had a runaway so we can possibly eliminate the more exotic candidates. Obviously, one parameter which distinguishes the runaway reaction is strong Infrared light, also seen in Parkhomov "glow tube" and replications. This brings up the field of optomechanics and more specifically "cavity optomechanics" which studies the interaction between light and mechanical movement. This also brings up the suggestion that with resonance and coherence, both the photon and phonon can be merged together into a hybrid or pseudo-particle. The "SPP" or surface plasmon polariton has been a candidate for LENR active modality - which has been talked about the most, but the SPP does NOT fit the circumstances precisely. Actually it is a poor fit. The plasmon, a quantum of plasma oscillation, does not really fit in the circumstance of a condensed lattice reaction since there is technically no plasma. The polariton does model strong coupling of electromagnetic waves with an electric dipole, which can be present in the runaway but "surface" does not model the a lattice effect. Thus SPP is one out of three accuracy. Moreover, phonons need to be included since mechanical vibration is more fundamental to LENR than optics. Perhaps LENR needs its own specific pseudo-particle, which vaguely resembles the SPP but only when combined with the phonon and eliminating the "surface" feature. Can we label this pseudo-particle as the PPP (phonon-plasmon-polariton) instead of SPP? As fate would have it, something like this PPP pseudo-particle has been proposed, if not witnessed by generation of single phonons at gigahertz frequencies in optoelectronics, where the single phonon has been triggered by single photons in the near infrared. See: http://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.116.234301 It would be intriguing to imagine that a pseudo-particle found in an unrelated field has broader applicability and can function as the active mediator in LENR ... either real or as metaphor. As a real particle, we can probably model "dense hydrogen" as having all the properties of a real PPP - functioning as a hybrid of all three constituents: phonon, plasmon and polariton, reduced to the quantized state.
