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From: JonesBeene
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 3:53 PM
To: Dave
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Kedron Energy MagMo

Dave - Even without superconductors, there could a niche for a hybrid 
electric/PM motor which could use the Kedron principle with electromagnets 

Of course we already have the simple version of PM in many electric motors and 
alternators which use PMs, typically as the rotor and have no repel phase; but 
no commercial design to my knowledge incorporates PM magnets as both stator and 
rotor, with the electromagnet being used on only a few degrees of rotation.

IIRC Terry Blanton was involved in a project with large PM magnets on both 
stator and rotor and one version of this had an electromagnet to release the 
rotor from the sticky point which all of these designs are plagued with. 
However, it was not overunity which was the goal. It was too large to be 
commercial in say an electric car.

I think a more appropriate goal to shoot for these days would be a compact 
electric PM motor which is 98-99% efficient at all speeds and it has a repel 
phase as does the Kedron.

The famous CSIRO motor (Australia) claimed to be the most efficient electric 
motor ever designed - and they did win all the Solar car races, but its 98% 
efficiency was only at high speed and efficiency dropped way off at lower RPM 
to the low 80s. The Tesla electric drive motor is not particularly efficient at 
low speeds either.

I think that there would be a large market in automotive for a double-PM motor 
design where electromagnets were used in such a way that they do two tasks 
simultaneously – provide release from the sticky point(s) and at the same time 
prevent demagnetization by proper pulsing in the repel phase - with the goal of 
having 98+ % efficiency at both high and low speeds and no loss of 
magnetization over years of use. That is doable.

From: Dave

Thanks.  Your comment makes me wonder how this device would in fact operate 
with super conducting magnets instead of permanent ones.  Maybe some form of 
model could predict how magnetic energy stored within a superconducting magnet 
set would decrease as mechanical energy is released.  I am not sure that the 
device would run at all in that substitute case, but if it does then maybe the 
model would show the energy conversion as it takes place in real world 
permanent magnets.
Perhaps the modeled superconducting drive current would slowly drop as 
mechanical work is performed?  Maybe someone else has some ideas about how this 
could be modeled which would save a lot of time evaluating future devices.
JonesBeene wrote:
From: Dave
Jones, did you see evidence that the amount of energy that could be extracted 
would exceed the amount stored within the permanent magnets?  Also, where did 
the inventor think the excess energy originated from?
No. That has not been proved and it is easy to fool oneself as this Phd is 
Here is the good doctor explaining and failing to realize his error – which is 
the looming problem of demagnetization
Anytime permanent magnets go into repel mode they become slowly demagnetized 
and there are no exceptions to this. It has doomed all the demos so far.
However, I also think (but have no real proof) the Laws of Thermodynamics are 
not real laws and that this feat could be accomplished using RTSC and magnets 
This is suspicious on the surface, but apparently not a scam.
BTW – I am 100% certain that another Magmo has run under self-power for about 
an hour - in front of a large panel of experts and sketics in Belgium who were 
allowed to disassemble it looking for hidden batteries. 
Problem is… you guessed it …. demagnetization of the magnets – but the magnetic 
motor can be made to self power for an indeterminate time with proper geometry 
to overcome the “sticky point”. 
Most likely, the LoT are preserved by the figuring in the energy necessary to 
regauge the permanent magnets. The is no real energy anomaly.
However, magnets do represent a source of potential energy – and that is a 
major change in thinking.
It would be extremely interesting to have coils embedded in the PMs in order to 
remagnetize them in situ as a function of energy operation.
In that way, the electrical current could serve two purposes and perhaps a 
greater anomaly would be seen.

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