The signal/noise ratio on the various Joe Cell groups aint great at the
moment, but I thought that vorts may find (some of) the following

There are four files below, recently posted to the Y! JoeCells2 group by Tom
Kramer.  I asked Tom's permission to repost  them here, which he said he'd
already done.  However, I've had two vort digests since then without seeing
them, so who knows...

I present Tom's thoughts without further comments.


--- snip ---

Theories: NO, Muions and Avalanches

HI Guys,

This post is all about what goes on inside the combustion cylinder of an
internal combustion engine running on a Joe Cell.

As there is currently no scientific evidence as to what goes on inside and
ICE cylinder when charged by a Joe Cell, I submit here several theories of
possible reactions:

1. The NO Theory:  A chemical reaction
2. The Muion Theory: A nuclear reaction
3. The Avalanche Theory: An electromagnetic reaction
4. The Everything Theory: God Knows?!

The starting point is to look first at what is in the cylinder at the time
of either implosion or explosion based initially on the spark setting of the
distributor.  In the cylinder is AIR.  Air is made up of gas molecules of
nitrogen (70%), oxygen (18%), some water vapor and a bunch of trace elements
including inert gases (helium, etc.) and various carbon compounds (CO2, CO,
CH4, etc.) all in only 2%.  There is also a thin film of oil on the cylinder
walls.  Nothing more is in the cylinder when the reaction occurs.

The cylinder sleeve is normally carbon steel inset into either a cast iron
or aluminum block with either a cast iron or aluminum head.  The cylinder is
cooled by various designs of water jackets.

The reaction is initially triggered by the distributor high-voltage DC
discharge spark (16Kv-30Kv).  When using a Joe Cell this spark is fired
70o-80o BTDC on the compression stroke.  The compressed atmospheric gases
are about 50% compressed at this stage and some compression heat is thus
generated. Further compression occurs until TDC is reached (unless there is
an implosion reaction).

So the starting point is a steel cylinder filled with atmospheric gases
under pressure and surrounded partially by water at which point a HV spark
is introduced.

1. The NO Theory:  This theory is covered in my first paper in the files
section and is based on the possible chemical reactions that could take
place in the cylinder.  As the principal chemicals are Nitrogen (N2) and
Oxygen (O2) gas, there is the possibility of forming the endothermic
reaction to create nitrous oxide (NO) or laughing gas, which is highly
explosive and could self-ignite on the power stroke.  NO can be created
using heat and a HV spark from air under pressure and this may result in a
small implosion.  Thus the chemical NO Theory has both and endothermic
implosion followed by a exothermic explosion on the power stroke (which will
also absorb heat as the gases expand giving a cold running engine).  Is this
theory realistic?  Maybe, but probably not unless we can get some gas
samples tested at various stages of compression and on the power stroke.
2. The Muion Theory:  This was a recent post and is quite interesting as it
proposes a nuclear reaction theory.  I won’t go into the repeat of this
post, but I will review salient points.  Mu particles are extremely
short-lived charged atomic particles that rapidly recombine with just about
anything in their immediate environment.  They are made naturally by cosmic
ray (gamma ray, x-ray, etc.) radiation as these high-energy rays collide
with other matter, breaking it up into charged particles that then recombine
with other particles or atoms in their immediate vicinity usually within

These reactions can be artificially created but this usually requires very
large and expensive electromagnetic accelerators.  Not something you can put
in your car.

There is a possibility of artificial inducement using a strong negative
electromagnetic field (as created by a Joe Cell) and then firing a positive
charge into such a polarized field, but it is highly doubtful that this
would be sufficient to set off a chain reaction of sufficient size to create
the implosion needed to suck a piston up.  The energy input factors do not
seem to be present.

3. The Avalanche Theory:  To better understand this theory it is best that
you have a read about the Papp Engine (pronounced ‘pop’ in Hungarian) and
the works of the Correas with their PAGD/XS technology, particularly the
Correas paper comparing the two systems (Google both).  Also review
Blacklight LLC’s technologies.

The Papp Engine runs on a mix of noble gases (primarily helium) only.  There
is no intake or exhaust.  The engine runs based on a plasma electron
avalanche that causes an implosion and then an explosion reaction within the
noble gas mix.

Simplified what happens is that Papp created an environment in which a
strong high voltage electromagnetic discharge (a spark plug) occurred on the
compression stroke which caused the outer electrons of the inert gases to be
temporarily stripped off in an electron avalanche plasma type reaction.
This is essentially a ‘cold’ plasma as it is just electrons rapidly fleeing
from the positive HV induced spark (Papp used 40Kv in 3 timed discharges per

For those familiar with Terroranta’s (Tero) S1r plasma spark videos, this
can be clearly seen as an electron plasma discharge that causes a bright
flash and implosive very loud BANG!  This was demonstrated using polarized
water vapor.  Papp used bigger electrode charges and inert gases.  The
Correas use a more subtle low voltage noble gas approach that has less
radiation effects.  All three approaches use a high frequency discharge as
from an ignition coil (something like 60kHz) and couple the HV or LV   with
a high amp input (S1r’s approach).  And the plasma ‘flash’ creates visible
light, UV, as well as, alpha, beta, gamma and x-ray radiations.

Electron avalanches are a rapid chain reaction, which will dissipate very
quickly especially when the electrons reach ground (steel cylinder walls).
The reaction, however, leaves the atoms that have lost electrons SMALLER and
in dire need of electron replacements.  Thus you have an implosive situation
followed by an explosive situation (expansion) where the atoms reclaim their
missing electrons from cylinder walls (now highly charged negative).

This, of course, all happens in micro-seconds which is the typical time
period that it takes a normal piston to cycle through compression and power
strokes at any reasonable RPM.

A Joe Cell may influence this avalanche reaction because of its strong
negative electric effect.  This would supply excessive electrons to the
engine block and to the cylinder walls and even the surrounding water jacket
thus allowing for a much faster reverse avalanche back to the atmospheric
gases within the cylinder.  Once the engine block, cylinder walls and engine
water has been negatively charged (excess electrons) there may be no further
need for the Joe Cell and this is seen in some cases where the cell leads
are completely removed.

This Avalanche Theory is the most plausible that I can think of given the
conditions and energies present in the cylinder.  An electron avalanche
reaction will cause some radiation effects and thus is a type of nuclear
reaction and should be properly shielded.  Some Joe Cell experimenters have
noted such radiations by using Geiger Counters near their cells too.  Care
should this be taken as over-exposure can lead to cancers (Papp died of
colon cancer.)

4. The Everything Theory:  Well, if you have a shotgun you can use it to
cover a broader target.  So lets say that the reaction is a chemical,
nuclear and electromagnetic avalanche soup.  You  started with a soup mix,
why not end with one?

Now it is time for your comments.

Tom Kramer

--- snip ---

Joes Cells

Hi Guys,

I have just been thrashing some Joe’s Cell thoughts through my head and
would like to open some discussion on these ideas.

First some known facts:

1. The cells use concentric 316L ss tubes having only the center tube
connected to a battery as a cathode (-negative lead), but the other tubes
and the outer casing are progressively charged with a positive lead on cell
start-up only.  This conditions the tubes to have a positive polarity facing
towards the cathode and the outside of the tubes having a negative polarity
(including the outer casing) (This is true if the center cathode is solid
but the opposite charges if it is filled with water.)

2. When “any” but preferred mineral spring ground water is poured into the
cell it must first be charged by first connecting the cathode lead and then
touching each cylinder one after the other starting from the inner most to
the outside casing with the positive battery lead.  This is a polarizing
process that apparently aligns the water molecules between the cylinders so
that they form head-to-tail configurations.  For some reason this
conditioning process also causes the minerals or other contaminants in the
water to precipitate out, either dropping to the bottom of the cell or
forming a scum at the top.  These precipitates have to be removed by simple
flushing of the cell and re-charging the cell water several times.  Once you
have a cleaned and charged water, the cell is ready to work.

3. Critical to the cell functioning properly is the use of proper insulating
materials, particularly substances that have no mineral metal content (even
in colorings). Natural rubber products and some plastics are recommended.
Any metal content will tend to short out the cell.  This also applies to the
cell mountings should you install one in your engine compartment or
elsewhere in a car but in this case only natural insulators (wood, burlap,
cotton, etc.) should encase the cell.  The aluminum pipe coming out of the
top of the cell should also be insulated with natural rubber tubing or

4. The cell when connected to a car uses a spark gap between the lead that
comes off the top of the cell (that is insulated) in the connection to an
engine.  The spark gap is generally constructed out of a piece of plastic
pipe connected on one end to the cell aluminum tube lead and the other end
to just about anywhere on the engine carburetor or engine block but must
have a gap between the aluminum tubing and connection point (1/2”-2”
adjustable gap).  This is a direct wired connection, but note that this is a
NEGATIVE wire with a spark gap on it from the cell as the tap is off the
OUTSIDE if the cell. (This is discussed in more detail in my next post).

5. The engine timing is them set to 70-80 degrees BTDC (35o-40o at the
distributor) and if you have done everything right you should be off to the

Now comes the discussion points:

Inside the engine you have air being sucked into the cylinder and being
controlled by the carburetor aperture opening based on throttle pedal
positions.  That is all that is going into the engine as fuel.

Air is about 79% nitrogen, 20% oxygen and 2% water vapour and other trace
In the cylinder the air is about 50% compressed (and partially heated as a
result) just before it is hit by the normal 20,000v distributor coil spark,
which is a POSITIVE charge discharge.  Now since you have a positive spark
discharging to a negative grounded block and to a negative polarity Joe’s
Cell, the spark gap appears to be the fastest way for the electric current
to get back to the battery.  This is provided that the current can flow
through the water, which is now highly polarized.

Now as described by those who have seen an engine running on a Joe’s Cell,
the engine runs very cold (an endothermic reaction).  The process absorbs
atmospheric temperature.

Since the primary things in the cylinder at the time of firing is N2 and O2
and the reaction is an implosion reaction (sucking the piston up) the only
likelihood is that these two chemicals are being combined in a reaction that
would form a smaller volume of gas, that is, NO or nitrous oxide (laughing
gas) which is also very reactive in the reverse reaction.

Perhaps what is happening in the cylinder is that there is an initial
reduction in air volume (implosion) followed by the re-expansion of the
gases (explosion of NO) on the down stroke.  Now the question arises if
anyone has tested the exhaust emissions for NO or NO2.  If there is an
increase in nitrous oxide levels, this will possibly indicate this type of
reaction taking place.  However, if there is an equalizing
implosion/explosion reaction there will be a nil effect.

Since electric current flows to the easiest route that it can find, Joe’s
demonstration of spark gapping from just about anywhere would be a
reasonable and normal response as the whole car body is GROUND for the
distributor spark.  Any negative lead will cause such an arcing,
particularly if it is connected direct to the battery.

The above NO theory would provide enough punch as nitrous oxide is the fuel
booster of choice for dragsters and street racers.  I can’t say at this time
if this is correct, but it sounds better to me based on all the available

I really don’t buy the orgone theory as the cell does not appear to be
generating any additional electricity, but merely appears to be operating as
a conductor or conduit for returning the HV spark to the battery.  (Except
when the negative lead is removed and then normal grounding channels would
be followed.)

Also if the NO Theory is correct, I could see why the MIB’s would want to
suppress the technology…..FREE FUEL!  Any motor or generator could be easily

Comments Guys?!

Tom Kramer

PS:  Should I start looking in my rear view mirror?

--- snip ---

More Joe’s Cells

Hi Guys,

I think that we need a few clarifications so that we are all on the same

1. Joe’sCell Connections:

A Joe’s Cell is only electrically connected at the central cathode (-) from
the battery (-).
(And sometimes even this connection is disconnected if the cell is fully

The other ss pipes are only briefly charged (sparked) with the positive lead
to give them an initial polarizing charge, but then the positive (+)
terminal is removed.  From then on there is no connection to the car
battery.  The only exception is the possible addition of a trickle charger
from a 1.5v flashlight battery (or similar choked charge from the car
battery) to keep the cell properly charged for long periods of time
(connecting the cathode to the outside top cylinder).

I would also like to make a small correction to my last post concerning the
charging polarities of the cell tubes.  On re-inspection I noted that the
cathode tube is water filled and the fitted bolt is connected on the inside
of the tube.  This may mean that the cathode tube inside wall is negative
and outside wall is positive.  Now with all series electrolysis cells that
we are building, we know that this pattern of negative-positive alignments
will follow through each succeeding cylinder right through to the outside
casing which should measure POSITIVE on the OUTSIDE (and probably negative
on the inside).  If this is true then the aluminum tubing coming out of the
top of the cell would also carry an outside positive charge and inside
negative charge.

Now this insulated aluminum pipe is NOT connected to the engine.  There is
an air gap created between the engine and the aluminum pipe by using a short
piece of hose (4”).  The connection to the engine is to just about any
bolt-on location with another piece of aluminum pipe that may have to be
drilled or machined to fit the attachment point. It is this connection that
the hose is fitted to, but it is a blind connection, that is, it is not
connected to any intake (carburetor) or vacuum hose.  (Some builders do
connect the line initially to a carburetor vacuum intake, but this is later
disconnected and reconnected to a dead bolt as above.)

2.  Spark Gap:

The gap between the aluminum pipe and the engine pipe is set between ½” to
 2” (the common recommendation is ¾”).  I initially called this a ‘spark gap
’, but that is a bit of a misnomer in that a spark does not actually arc
across this gap.  If it ever did the cell would explode from the
electrolysed gases.  I should probably have called it a ‘conductance gap’ as
there exists a conductance potential over the inner surface of the rubber
tubing caused by highly polarized water generated by the cell adhering to
the inner surface of the tubing.

Now the jury is still out on the type of energy being transferred down
through this pipe to or from the engine.  It may be just the hv distributor
discharge since the engine will only run when the coil-distributor are
functioning (with or without plug wires attached).   Or it may be orgone or
some other energy clearly not fully understood.   This connection does have
an effect on the circuit though and it is a polarized effect because any
grounding of the aluminum tube to the car (body, engine) will short out the

3.  Electrolysis:

A Joe’s Cell is a very inefficient electrolysis cell.  It does produce small
amounts of H2 and O2 gas from normal electrolysis but this is or has to be
vented off the cell.  This is done either through a simple pressure valve or
a loose fitting rubber hose that will allow the gases to be “burped” out.
Note that highly polarized water vapor is also being generated and is
coating the inside surface of the aluminum pipe and hose.

A small amount of water is thus consumed by the cell during normal
operation, but this is very small and is NOT burned in the engine (unless
the vented gases are injected in some way).

4. Back to Eddie Crawford:

Now, I would like to refer to the discussions of a couple months ago
concerning Eddie Crawford’s water powered car.  It was claimed that his car
ran on water with a spark advance BTDC.   WOW!  No Joe’s Cell and the car
still ran!  Think about that for a minute.

Here we have a spark induced implosion reaction but without orgone?  Back to
my NO Theory (with some possible NH and OH radicals added for safe measure)

5. Joe’s Mark I Cell:

For those of you who have read Alex Shiffer’s excellent book on Joe’s Cells
or seen pictures of Joe’s first cell you may recognize it as what I referred
to in my book as an Aussie Cell (see Part 1 or 2).  This is a 2-cylinder
electrolysis cell that is connected to the vacuum intake on the intake
manifold and controlled with a small needle valve to allow air into the
cell.  The inner cell is charged negative and the outer cell positive (and
insulated from the car body and engine).  This is a single cell version of
an Archie Blue reactor and is meant to just add a modified H2, O2 and NO gas
mix to the engine.  These can increase gas mileage to over 100 mpg and can
be further improved by coiling insulated wire around the cell and creating
an electromagnetic field effect.

Joe’s Mark I cell was one of these, however, he hooked it up wrong.  Sort of
back-asswards, but what do you expect from a farm boy?  He thought that he
was connecting it to the carburetor, but instead just hooked it up to the
heat shield.  So much for the Mother of invention.  His mistake, of course,
led to a most unusual discovery.

6.  Orgone Energy:

For the simplicity of standardization of terms I will discuss this new
energy as “orgone” energy in respect to Wm. Reich.  Alex’s coverage of other
names is also very good for reference. (See his Chapter 2 & 3 in the Files
section. I copy edited and copied his book into Word for Group reference.)

I have read in a number of UFO accounts and futurist writings that we will
discover and be able to use a new form of energy that is abundant and “free”
.  Orgone experiments such as those conducted by Reich, EV Gray, Papp and
others clearly indicate such a force exists, but that it is a bit finicky
and temperamental.  Alex did a good job of trying to define orgone, but this
is based on existing and past experimenter’s inefficient attempts to capture
and use this force or energy.  These efforts add to the confusion as
differing methods have been used and each with varying degrees of success.

One interesting point that I noted was that Reich referred to hexagonal
collectors or concentrators to be a bit more efficient.  Now does this
relate to the fact that one of the most energized forms of water is when
water molecules form hexagonal clusters?  Should we perhaps use staggered
hex tubes as a collector?

Reich also noted that the orgone energy was a surface effect that traveled
on the outside of a corrugated surface (threads?).  Do we really need
polished surfaces?  Hmmm?

Just some thought seeds for further discussion and experimentation.

Now, is Bob Boyce’s 60 plate reactor an orgone collector?  Sweet Dreams

Tom Kramer

--- snip ---

Joe’s Water

Hi Guys,

This post is all about WATER.

We all know that water is H2O.  It is also a polarized molecule with the
negative end being the Oxygen and the positive ENDS represented by the two
Hydrogen atoms.  That is a good starting point.

What most people fail to understand is that water forms very complex
macro-molecules due to the fact that the hydrogen atoms form HYDROGEN BONDS
with adjacent oxygen atoms.  These are supposedly WEAK bonds, however, since
they are shared bonds, the bonding distance between any O-H combination can
vary and shift readily based on various influences that are applied to water
(heat, electricity, magnetism, etc.), that is, they can be strong or weak
and shift between these states (bonding distances) very easily and quickly.

It is thus better to think of water as one BIG molecule.

It is more like H100O50, or H300O150, or H12O6, or any other clustered
combinations that you can think of running into some very large numbers even
within a drop of water.

Water is also very seldom PURE.  This is due to the fact that the natural
polarity of water will cause other chemicals to be dissolved and essentially
surrounded by either the oxygen ends or hydrogen ends of atomic ions.

This situation can be altered and the ions can be precipitated out of the
water if the water macro-molecules are stimulated to realign with each other
thus forcing the dissolved mineral atoms to combine with each other and
either drop out or float to the top (if lighter than water) of highly
polarized water macro-molecules.  This is generally what happens in a Joe’s

Now it is also important to understand the SHAPE of water and its related
hydrogen bonding.  Under normal conditions the two hydrogen atoms are at
about a 105o angle to each other (not 90o) due to the fact that similar
charges oppose each other.  This angle, however, constantly varies due to
the influence of other adjacent hydrogen bonds and other outside
stimulations (particularly electronic or magnetic).  Remember that atoms are
in constant motion and vibration so things do not remain the same.….ever.

You should also imagine the hydrogen atoms bonding in a V pattern, but try
to visualize the V both straight on and sideways (V and I (sideways)).   Now
in bonding, two V’s cannot combine as these are in opposition (< >
positive-to-positive), but a <O-O<O- type of alignment is possible.  It is a
bit difficult to show this in 2D and with text only, but I hope you get the

Now what happens when you induce water to form UNIFORM macro-molecule
formations using an electromagnetic field?
                        _                               +
                        |-O>O-O>O-O>O-O>O-O |

Essentially what happens is that you form O-H polarized chains between the
cathode (-) and the anode (+) terminals.  If you supply enough current you
will get electrolysis (water dissociation).  If you do NOT supply enough
current you will merely MAINTAIN POLARITY and you will not get electrolysis.

This is what is happening in a Joe’s Cell.

Looking at this more closely you should also note that there is hydrogen
bonding BETWEEN LAYERS of these macro-molecules.  This creates one very
large macro-molecule with polarized orientation.  That is, all the water
molecules are attached to each other in an optimized and polarized manner.

This creates a unique lattice structure through which energies (electrical,
magnetic, orgone(?)) can be easily transmitted.

Now note that any disturbances to this lattice structure will result in the
immediate disruption of any polarized field effect.  Simply, (1) reversing
of the plate polarities or (2) the influence of strong magnetic fields
(including the fact that humans are di-poles, head positive and feet
grounded) or (3) resonant vibration effects or (4) excessive heat or (5) the
addition of ions or other contaminants, all will cause interference in such
a lattice structure and thus weaken or completely destroy the effect.  This
is clearly seen in the temperamental nature of Joe’s Cells.

This also explains why a Joe Cell must be progressively charged and the fact
that you need to use non-magnetic stainless steel.   The actual charge on
the cylinders are NEGATIVE (-) on the inside and POSITIVE (+) on the outside
of each cylinder, but the cylinders have to be charged progressively
positive outwards from the central cathode, one after the other, so that
they form this (-) inside and (+) outside polarity so that the water can
realign itself into the proper lattice formation.

Now there is another interesting geometric pattern that water forms.
Although water can take on many different macro-molecule structural
formations, one of the most beneficial is a HEXAGONAL BONDING relationship.
This is most often formed by spinning water in a vortex.

A hexagonal shape is about as close as you can get to a round geometric
shape with atoms having angular bonding.  And it has been observed that Joe
Cells exhibit a circular flow between the cylinders.  Hmmm.  And for those
experienced with Hydro-Magnetic Dynamos (HMD’s) you will also see some
similarities in electrical power generation.

There are several possible reasons for this movement in the water.  The
first has to do with cell geometry.  Simply the cells are round but the
water molecules are angular which means that not all surface bonding is
straight on and that through natural pushing and shoving of molecules, some
will be displaced in a sequential lattice manner and with any particular
influence (magnetic particularly), this displacement will form a wave or
circular pattern in one direction (a possible dynamo effect).

The second factor mentioned above is magnetic field effects.  These are
noted in Joe Cells as having a N-S vertical polarity on the cells.  The
cells are also influenced by the earth’s N-S polar alignment.  Magnetic
fields have a circular effect and thus are the most likely cause of such
noticed water movement in the cells.

This geometric shape, however, has led me to another line of thought.
Movement of water within a cell certainly will cause disturbances to the
lattice structure mentioned above.  That will, to varying degrees, affect
the efficiency of the cell.  Now as I see it (and this is just conjecture
theory at this stage), it would appear that a hexagonal shaped cell would
more closely FIT the atomic angles of the water molecules in a lattice
formation.  This would prevent unnecessary water movement and considerably
less disruption to the lattice form, thus being much more stable in

Now where are we going to find hexagonal pipes?  We will have to make them
from 316L plate with TIG welded joints.  Pre-polish before bending and
welding.  You will also need a plastic or wooden hex-form for truing to size
and shape.  Who knows what the maximized measurements will be at this time?
No body.  But that is what experimentation is all about.

It is an interesting concept and, if you have a proper shop, it may be worth
a try.

In conclusion, the water in a Joe Cell is clearly being polarized into an
aligned lattice structure.  This initially results in the precipitation of
most of the ions in the water during the conditioning phase.  Once the water
has essentially purified itself, it will form interlinked geometric patterns
conducive to the flow of various energies (electrical, magnetic and
orgone(?)).  This is seen in the initial electrolytic cell charging and
later in the N-S vertical magnetic polarity developed by the cell, and also
by the strange effects the cell (and aligned Joe’s water) has on engines
(and people).

This macro-molecule polarized lattice arrangement of water within a cell
appears to have a type of capacitance effect as noted in the pulsing of an
engine idling on a Joe Cell.  I would be interested to know what the cycle
periods are in seconds as this might relate to the Schumann Resonance
Frequency of the earth’s ionosphere (7.83Hz-12Hz range) which would also be
affected by day night cycles and various solar radiation effects.  (Cells
can sometimes go dead overnight.)  However, this is not a typical capacitor
effect in that there is only a negative lead connection, or at times, NO
connection to an electrical power source.  It is more of a polarized
potential of energy or an energy collector than a typical electrical
discharge capacitor.  This is caused by polarized geometric alignments, but
it is still unclear how these alignments create an effect on the AIR
(nitrogen, oxygen, water vapor and trace elements) within an engine cylinder
to cause an implosion reaction on the compression stroke.  That is a topic
for further discussion and postings.

This should be enough food for thought for one day.  I have posted this
message in the files section under Kramer’s Joe’s Cell Comments together
with several other postings for easier future reference by all.  I
appreciate all comments and constructive additions or deletions as you, from
your own personal experiences, may deem to be relevant.  Thank you.

Tom Kramer

--- Ends ---
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