POSSIBLY DUPLICATE POST ----------------------- Jones Beene wrote:
> Hi Walter, > > Don't be sorry, Walter - after all, you are only human > and it's very normal for us hairless-apes, as the > dominant species and top of the food-chain for now, to > want and desire above all else for "things" to stay that > way forever ... and you are merely expressing that > expected sentiment - somewhat out of desperation, > perhaps. But it is natural ... even if it is kind of a > knee-jerk reaction. > > Logic, if it could ever be applied in a dispassionate > way to our developmental history - might indicate > otherwise, however... > > Hard to be objective, though - when it comes to the > subject of something "special" about our kind of > intelligence. Roger Penrose has been spinning his wheels > on this task for some time, and despite arguments more > convoluted than some of his tiling patterns, has largely > failed to find any objective factor which will deny the > same intelligence we have- to our equally complex > creations, even if they are biological (in the sense of > genetic engineering) as opposed to mechanical - or > perhaps even a chimera. > > Many will always find it revolting to imagine that the > intelligence which we prize so much - and is our > defining characteristic as a species - is merely the > "emergent property" of simple arithmetic - that is: the > emergent property of an evolutionary increase in neutral > capacity, combined with a few other "connections" in the > Burke sense like fingers and vocal chords (as well as > "connections" in the sense of society). Is that all there > is? connections? > > Is that all there is .... to a brain? ...ask Miss Peggy > (or maybe Miss Piggy) > > Jones Hi, Jones. I presume you at least agree with me that creating a LifeBox will require superintelligence. But I think you misjudge me in my opinion on the possibility of superintelligence. First, I do not doubt that our metaphysical minds are solely the products of our physical brains. Penrose tries to explain one mystery (the mind; consciousness) in terms of another (quantum theory), while I'm fairly sure that the mind is not mysterious in that sense. Even if there were a connection, quantum theory IS a physical theory. And I agree that intelligence is an emergent property of the brain. But the many thousands of structures and processes in the brain that give rise to it are the product of hundreds of millions of years of evolution. It's simply not simple. Evolution might be able of creating superintelligence if we gave it an evolutionary time scale in which to work. That is, at least several million years. It would also need an environment in which intelligence would be heavily selected for. AI researchers thought they could get by with less. With ungrounded purely-syntactic "facts" and inference rules. With production rules. With ultra-simplistic "neural nets". With fuzzy logic. With genetic algorithms. With ever-faster computers and ever-more memory. They were wrong. Though all these methods work, they are not enough. AFAIKS, there really is no short-cut. To create a superintelligence we will have to at least understand regular intelligence at a detailed level -- and all the levels in-between. A task that will require many decades of work rather than just a couple. With no guarantee of success or that success will be enough to go further. I do expect this work will be done. And that superintelligence might one day come to be. Lastly, Jones, I note you really didn't address my main argument. Who will be the first to gain access to superintelligent machines (or superintelligent meat or whatever), however they come to be? People with money and power, probably via governments. Organized religious fanatics. Or just plain criminals. That is: Not you or me. And I really doubt that if and when these people get access to these magic machines, capable of delivering to them ultimate power over all humankind, I sincerely doubt they will act with our best interests at heart. Of course history provides some counterexamples; not a lot. But if this fearful hairless ape errs, he errs on the side of caution. Best wishes to you my friend. -Walter P.S. My late father loved Peggy Lee; hers was the last music he listened to. He was an organist and choirmaster.
