Richard wrote:
>> From OrionWorks:
>>
>> Ok, now, all you mad scientists lurking out in vortex land, what happens
>> to the doughnut shaped ring? Will it remain stationary, or will it
>> possibly begin to spin.
> Howdy Steven,
>
> Remains stationary. Visualize two fields. Each field is vortex shaped
> like a spinning top. The base of the two tops connected at their base.
> Use a mind picture of the actual fields within a donut shaped magnet
> to understand the fields are rotating in opposite directions similar
> to earth's magnetis fields. That's what keeps a single donut shaped
> magnet from flying off into the sunset and our feet of the ground....
> err.. well.. that is.. unless one has an extremely vivid imagination
> brought about by inhaling certain types of hemp pollen.<grin>
>
> Richard
Howdy back, Richard.
The Vortex mailing list rudely striped away the subject field of my original
post, which was supposed to have stated: "A Spinning Doughnut for Your
Thoughts?", However, a "Dunkin Donut" works just fine by me as well! ;-)
I really ought to build a 3D rapid prototype model of what it is that I'm
trying to visualize here using RHINO 3D, and then post a link to it -- HAH! IF
I could only find the time to do this. I'm not sure my description was fully
understood. You state: "Visual two fields." Two fields? I only visual a single
field where the magnetic flux lines are "traveling" between the two cylindrical
magnets in parallel lines. Here's a crude graphic representation of what it is
that I'm trying to build. Make sure you look at this diagram in plain text mode:
|| <-------- Central turning axis of donut.
||
***** || *****
* N * || * N *
* * || * *
* * || * * <- Cylinder Permanent Magnet
* * || * * with hole through center
* S * || * S *
***** || *****
---- || ----
| | /\ | |
|- |== ==| -| <= Negatively charged "donut ring"
| | \/ | |
---- || ----
***** || *****
* N * || * N *
* * || * * <- Cylinder Permanent Magnet
* * || * * with hole through center
* * || * *
* S * || * S *
***** || *****
||
|| <-------- Central turning axis of donut.
Please note that this DIAGRAM is a CROSS SECTION. While it might look like
there are four independent "bar" magnets. In truth there are only two where we
have -sliced- through the upper and lower cylinder magnets. Likewise we have
sliced through the negatively charged "dunkin donut!"
Granted this diagram depicts a static magnetic field, but there is only one
magnetic field where the flux lines are essentially running parallel between
the two cylinder permanent magnets.
The skeptical side of me suspects that since the flux lines are essentially
static, as well as the charged donut the contraption will NOT begin to spin
even though it is immersed within a strong magnetic field which ought to make
the ALL the additionally charged "free" electrons want to spiral in a
particular direction.
Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.Zazzle.com/orionworks
FYI: Again, here is the text of my original post:
Are there any mad scientists within the Vortex group that might be willing to
stick their neck out and make a reasonably accurate prediction what would
happen if the following device was built. BTW, I don't perceive it as being
impossible to build this device either:
Create a doughnut shape ring consisting of extremely thin lattices of flat
disk-like material (much thinner than paper) that circumnavigate the entire
360-degree "ring" circumference. These pancake-like disks would consist of two
different compositions of materials, placed alternately between each other.
The composition of the first kind of material, what I'll call the "ionic
composition" possesses the ability to collect and store an extremely large
collection of electrons within its internal matrix. The second material, which
I'll call the "insulator composition", works as an extremely effective
insulator, effectively barring any collection of free electrons that might
accumulate within the "ionic composition" disks from jumping between each other.
Just to be clear here, I'm speaking of a doughnut shaped ring consisting of a
stacked lattice of two kinds of extremely thin disk material circumnavigating
the entire 360 degree circumference of the doughnut shaped ring.
Design the doughnut shaped ring so that each of the "ionic" disks are connected
to microscopic electrical leads that radiate inward, like the wire spokes
belonging to a bicycle wheel. All the electrical leads are connected to a
central axis. Visually speaking, we would have a doughnut shaped ring
consisting of a lattice composition of two materials that, in turn, would be
held together (supported) by a central axis. Said differently, visualize a
spinning top (the doughnut shaped ring) with a central axis running out of each
end.
Next, place this doughnut shaped "top" between two very powerful
cylindrically-shaped Permanent Magnets that had been manufactured with a hole
running through their center. (Cylindrically-shaped Magnets with holes running
through their center are commonly manufactured.) The hole in the center of both
permanent magnets would be where the axis of specially manufactured "top" would
run through.
...Does anyone see where I might be going with this scenario?
Now, employing the assistance of an experienced mechanical engineer design an
armature that would hold both the doughnut shaped "top" and two
cylindrically-shaped magnets in one place, so that the "top" can spin freely
within the two permanent magnets with as little friction as possible.
And now, the final step: Again, employing the assistance of a very experienced
mechanical engineer and/or electrical engineer devise a way to connect the
central axis to a charging apparatus so that we can charge the thin pancake
lattice layers of "ionic" disks with a massive flux of electrons, and all the
while allowing our doughnut shaped top to spin freely should it choose to do so.
Ok, now, all you mad scientists lurking out in vortex land, what happens to the
doughnut shaped ring? Will it remain stationary, or will it possibly begin to
spin.
Conventionally speaking, I realize electricity is generated by dynamically
passing a wire THROUGH a magnetic field. Electricity only appears to flow when
you actively move the wire through the magnetic flux lines. We all know that's
exactly how conventional electric generators "generate" the electricity we use
to run our world. I realize there may be some on-going debate concerning the
finer points of the next statement I'm about to make, but it is my
understanding that that electricity generally ceases to flow almost
"instantaneously" once the wire ceases to move through the magnetic flux lines.
Again, I realize there is some debate about this matter, but that's besides the
point.
Here's my conundrum: How do individual free-wheeling electrons behave when
placed within a magnetic field? According to my conventional understanding of
particle physics, a fog chamber clearly shows charged particles, particularly
electrons, SPIRALING in step with any magnetic field that they might be
immersed within. The question I keep asking myself is: Are these electrons
"spiraling" because they are already moving THROUGH the magnetic flux lines
(akin to the phenomenon we call electricity), or would stationary free floating
electrons automatically begin to pick up speed (accelerate) from a stationary
position and begin to "spiral" in sync with the magnetic flux lines they are
immersed within.
If there might be some element of truth to the latter premise, what would
happen if you have a doughnut shaped ring charged with zillions and bazillions
of extra free-wheeling electrons (which, BTW, includes all of their accumulated
additional electron mass), all trapped within a series of these "ionic"
lattices, where these free electrons are also physically being prevented from
performing their "spiral-like" dances, jumping from individual "ionic" lattices
to "ionic" lattice, trying to conform to the magnetic lines of flux. IOW, what
would the accumulated mass of all those free-floating electrons be trying to do
if they were all ALSO deeply immersed within the strong magnetic field of the
two permanent magnets situated above and below our doughnut shaped "top"?
Conventional physics would seem to suggest to me that those free electrons
would try to continuously move (spiral around) in the direction of the magnetic
flux lines as determined by the north/south polarity of the !
permanent magnets. But if the accumulated masses of all these free-wheeling
electrons are constantly "bumping" against the "barrier" (the lattices of
insulation) couldn't this possibly generate a distinct and continuous
measurable Newton-like action-reaction measurement, the equivalent of a torque
force. Could we possibly create a distinct and continuously "spinning" torque
force measurable on a macro scale within the entire doughnut ring assembly?
Assuming we could get the friction of our doughnut shaped "top" down to a bare
minimum, could we possibly create a situation where our "top" might actually
begin to physically spin, seemingly drawing it's energy continuously from the
magnetic flux lines emanating from the two permanent magnets situated above and
below?
I don't know how many "free" electrons we might need. Probably an unbelievably
massive number of the little critters. I don't know how strong the torque
measurement might turn out to be either. Never the less, it almost sounds to me
like we might be able to demonstrate on the macro scale the equivalent of what
I believe Jones Beene once described within vortex as a "spinner", a spinning
device that clearly demonstrates continuous "free" motion, and the
controversial phenomenon labeled: Over Unity.
Ok, here's another thought: What if we made our lattice "ring" out of one of
the recently discovered superconducting materials that, in turn, are sandwiched
between lattices of our special insulation material. Now super-cool the
latticed ring with liquid nitrogen, find a way to super charge the
superconductive material (Yeah, I know, pick the brains of a good electrical
engineer!) and finally place the ring above a powerful permanent magnet. Is
there any possibility that our special super cooled ring of latticed material
might begin to physically spin? Alas, the fuddy-duddy skeptic within me would
say: No Charley, it won't spin - Game Over. But I really dunno fer sure.
Is any of this theoretically possible, or have I mangled my understanding of
the free wheeling behavior of free electrons?
Signed: Puzzled
Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.Zazzle.com/OrionWorks
