They say here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery that the A123 battery "has slightly lower energy density that other competing Lithium Ion technologies".
Standard Li-ion (not high power): 150 to 200 Wh/kg (sez above article), so "slightly lower" would be ~100 Wh/kg, twice ScIB's 50 Wh/kg? Unless "other competing Lithium Ion technologies" means other high power technologies... In any case there seems to be a lot of promising research going on besides these two, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery#Breakthrough_Research "In December 2007, researchers at Stanford university reported creating a lithium ion battery with ten times the energy density (amount of energy available by weight) through using silicon nanowires deposited on stainless steel as the anode. The battery takes advantage of the fact that silicon can hold large amounts of lithium, and helps alleviate the longstanding problem of cracking by the small size of the wires. [4] To gain a tenfold improvement in energy density, the cathode would need to be improved as well; however, just improving the anode as such could provide "several" times the energy density, according to the team. The team leader, Yi Cui, expects to be able to commercialize the technology in about five years.[5]" Several times = at least twice, so maybe 400 Wh/kg will be the norm in five years (EESTOR's announced 1000 Wh/kg might be beaten before they deliver!), for a 50 kWh EV this would be 50000/400 = 125 kg, which would be perfect. All these announcements, with rising oil price as you say, suggest that EVs are indeed likely to replace our present "stinkers" in the near future :) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 3:27 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Toshiba Bettery > > > Michel Jullian wrote: >> That's for the cathode material, and it is nanostructured. The rest seems to >> be standard Li ion battery materials. >> >> It has all the features one can dream of for a Bettery (5mn charge, works >> down to -30°C, >10 yrs life), except for energy density. From the page you >> quote: >> "The current capacity and nominal voltage of the standard module are 4.2Ah >> and 24V, respectively. Its size is approximately 100 × 300 × 45mm. And it >> weighs about 2,000g. Consequently, its energy density is about 50.4Wh/kg >> (74.7Wh/L)." >> >> Suitability for an EV: for 50 kWh (minimum required for a non hybrid EV I >> believe), > "Minimum" is squishy. For an EV with the same range as a gas car > traveling at highway speeds, yup, you probably do need something like 50 > kWh, or even more. > > But to produce a "commuter car" with a substantial market, which > performs better than a similar car equipped with old-fashioned EV > batteries (like, lead-acid), you can get away with a lot less. > > 25 kWh would probably give a range of ~ 80 to 100 miles at moderate > speed, or so I'd guess. And at 25 kWh, your battery weight goes down to > about a half ton, which is plausible. > > Current aftermarket highway-usable EVs carry on the order of a half-ton > of batteries and have considerably poorer range than that, but they're > still useful cars. OTOH, is the market for such cars big enough for > someone (*not* GM, obviously) to make money in it? I dunno... > > Note that lead-acid batteries really suffer in the deep discharge cycles > of an EV. Consequently lead-acid based EV's need to have their > batteries replaced every couple years, and a few months into the second > year their range is typically starting to look pretty anemic compared to > what the same battery pack could do when new. And a single "near-death > experience" -- caused by, say, getting lost and accidentally going 'way > over the limit, maybe even running them all the way down until the car > stops moving while trying to find your way back -- can take months off > the battery pack's life. In a word, lead-acid batteries stink. > > The SCiB batteries, with an alleged 5000 cycles before they start > failing, would be incomparably better batteries for an EV. > Perspective: 5,000 cycles is 13 years of use cycling them once a day. > > And if gas keeps going up, marketing an EV should get really easy... > > >> the mass would be 50000/50.4 =~1000 kg as I worked out before, much too >> heavy I think, and volume would be 50000/74.7 = 670 L, quite a lot. But I >> think it's perfect for hybrids, for which 10 kWh must be sufficient (200 kg, >> 134 L are acceptable figures) >> >> Michel >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Terry Blanton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:35 PM >> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Toshiba Bettery >> >> >> >>> Lithium Titanate: >>> >>> http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20071212/144076/ >>> >>> Terry >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:12 PM, Charles M. Brown >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>>> What is the SCiB battery made of? >>>> I think that everyone should know as much about everything as possible. >>>> Secrecy does not help civilization extend knowledge. People enthusiastic >>>> about batteries should gravitate towards battery makers. Product users >>>> should be as knowledgeable as possible about their activity. >>>> >>>> Aloha, >>>> Charlie >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >
