Four years ago: Frank Grimer, myself and others had a speculative thread going (under the above subject line) about deriving "free" beta-aether gainfulness (which may or may not be identical to what we commonly refer to as ZPE) from the higher polymorphs of water ice- such as ice-3 up to ice-11.
These are distinct kinds of pressurized ice which are of much higher density and can have a very significant amount of "proton ordering". Proton ordering is an extremely energetic form of potential energy that is largely neglected in the literature since it has not yet found any real-world applications. Recently some mecs with better credential have taken up the cause. "Proton ordering energetics in ice phases" by G. A. Tribelloa et al. Faraday Research Laboratory, The Royal Institution. London. http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2006CPL...425..246T I decided to reword the prior Vo posting on this subject to reflect a possible application of the mechanics of ice-explosion to an improved air-motor, based on taking the Negre design to the next step in what is hopefully an evolutionary progression towards elimination of fossil fuel in transportation. That reworded essay will come in a later posting. Here is the gist of the Abstract from Faraday Research Laboratory: "Results from first-principles calculations on the subtle energetics of proton ordering in ice phases are shown only to depend on the electrostatic components of the total energy. Proton ordered ice phases can therefore be predicted using electronic structure methods or a tailored potential model".... IOW they are saying that the energy from Proton ordering in ice can be predicted, but not accurately as electrostatic hydrogen bonding. Frank Grimer has already guesstimated (if memory serves) that the effective pressure (not the energy) would be around a quarter million psi, once the proton ordering decays to random - which does seem to be in keeping with the corresponding electrostatic forces such as Van der Waals) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Waals_force ... and moreover, we have speculated that if that short range pressure could be harnessed at all, then it would be in an ice "explosion" which would capture the force via the "jerk" or intense shock-wave of expansion and sublimation. Crude experimentation has verified that there can be an explosion and even some radiation effects in these circumstances; but that was never carried forward adequately. Which all fits neatly into the possibility of "triple-phase-change" - which is cold water being quenched under pressure to ice-3 or above by the compressed-air of a modified Negre engine. Under rapid expansion and initial temperature drop, a small percentage of the ice which is formed (on the Boltzmann tail of the distribution) will form into temporary high order polymorphs of proton ordered ice); then comes the electric arc; then the sublimation of the ordered ice (bypassing the liquid phase) into a gaseous state with an expansion rate of perhaps Mach 10 for a short distance. Whether it would be gainful would depend on statistics- i.e. how much of it (if any) would be transformed this way from a highly "ordered state" (proton ordering) to a completely "random state" (normal water) and how much of the non-ordered mass is able to nearly break-even so that the end result is gainful. This is an alternative understanding of the Graneau results - which assumes that a tiny percentage of the water involved goes through the above triple phase-change dynamics. If the hydrino can be involved also - then all the better. It should be emphasized highly that Graneau did NOT optimize his experiment for for either ordered-ice nor for hydrinos and yet he still got an apparent overunity condition. BTW - there have been sensible estimates on capturing the energy of simple "proton ordering" and it is far from trivial - and in fact can be in the effective range of the combustion of hydrocarbons. As I understand it, the effective energy of the combustion of hydrocarbons is about a tenth of an eV per molecule involved (based on the total molecules involved including the nitrogen in air and the unburned chemicals). Proton ordering could provide in theory at least that much energy, maybe more if hydrinos result. BTW - it would seem that a very strong magnetic field might also be helpful in ordering protons. Jones
