At 01:47 PM 5/7/2010, Terry Blanton wrote:
Wait a minute.  Why should I care about two people, who are both
wrong, arguing with each other?  :-)

Because even a stopped clock is right twice a day....

Seriously, Shanahan, it must be realized, is the best the skeptics have at this point. He's raising, explicitly, the issues that can still be raised, with a sort-of straight face, with the experimental evidence for cold fusion. Further, notice that Shanahanan's paper was allegedly prepared pursuant to a DoE contract. It's badly written for that purpose, but there could be serious implications here.

I suspect that the paper will not be published as-is by the Journal of Environmental Monitoring. If it is, it would indicate a serious lack of peer review, there is too much in the paper that isn't sustainable on examination. But I could be wrong, and we should be prepared to address the flaws in this paper.

As to Krivit, he's mostly right in his response to Shanahan, though his response does not address the specific flaws in sufficient detail, and Krivit himself doesn't get some of the issues.

Krivit is arguing with Shanahan and using the occasion to make some of his own points about the whole cold fusion community. Shanahan is arguing with the whole cold fusion community, not with Krivit.

The issues that Shanahan raises should be addressed; many of them already have been, which is a problem with Shanahan, he distorts and misrepresents what has already been done. Shanahan is taking the lazy approach: the sit-back skeptic raises objection after objection about why some new result and conclusion isn't "proven." A working scientist will be skeptical in the other direction as well. Shanahan is raising objection after objection, but never actually demonstrates that any of the objections are more than allegedly possible alternate hypotheses. At some point, when piece of evidence after piece of evidence arises, all with independent objections, one must start to wonder what is *really* happening. And real debunking of real pathological science requires actually showing that artifact is artifact, not just that it "might be" artifact, when we are looking at thousands of independent reports of a phenomenon.

Let me put it this way; is this a civil or a criminal case? In a criminal case, if cold fusion would convict someone and send them to life in prison, I'd have to vote against conviction, maybe, but it would be tough. The evidence is quite strong, overall. In a civil case, if cold fusion would award a huge settlement to a plaintiff, I'd award the settlement, because in civil cases, the standard is preponderance of the evidence.

The issue before funding agencies should be preponderance of the evidence, not "proof beyond a shadow of doubt." Preponderance of the evidence is now clearly on the side of cold fusion, and Shanahan is desperately reaching, as an attorney for the defense of traditional theories, to find every possible pretext for dismissing it all. It won't work.\

I've now glanced over the rest of the paper. He drastically misrepresents the triple-track issue. Triple-tracks are definitely dramatic and interesting, and they are not what he claims they might be, simple coincidence of pits, because in some of the images, three grooves at the base of the pits can be seen leading to a common point of origin that is quite small. Shanahan is looking at a piece of elephant dropping, and missing the elephant, the proton knock-on tracks found abundandtly on the back of wet CR-39 and missing from the front. These tracks are spatially located opposite the cathodes.

Shanahan is creatively coming up with various alternative hypotheses, such as mini-explosions that can pass through mylar to cause pits. Why mini-explosions would happen without fusion he assigns to an oxygen bubble reaching the cathode, I believe. But that would not cause an explosion, it could cause a burn. The shock waves reported were not terribly energetic; in those experiments the cathode was a piezoelectric detector used as the substrate for codeposition, maximally sensitive to what was going on on their very surface. He's got an image of some kind of focused energy transmission -- from a chemical explosion that wouldn't happen, that requires a stoichiometric mixture, which would not exist at the cathode -- that passes through, not just a 6 micron piece of mylar, but through a 1/16" piece of CR-39 to pit the back. Or he has oxygen bubbles causing pits on the back, but explains not why these pits would be aligned with the cathode wires. I'll write more with a specific critique.

he doesn't understand that the mylar used in the wet configuration by SPAWAR was the protective mylar that comes on rad-detection CR-39, normally peeled off to start detecting. It was accidentally left on, and that's when they started to see that there was something going on besides alpha radiation. Proton knock-on requires a hydrogen-rich material for the neutrons to get the protons to hit.... that's why these tracks aren't seen so much on the front side, but are found in copious quantities on the back. Neutrons themselves leave no tracks.

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